In the “never-ending” drama that is known as the 2008 Presidential election, there is an appearance that the decision issued yesterday by the Honorable Judge R. Barclay Surrick in the matter of Berg v. Obama might have been SENT to the judge just a short time BEFORE he released the decision.
A fax copy of the decision from Judge Surrick was faxed to Mr. Berg from the Judge’s Chambers, pages 1-36, beginning at 18:09 October 24, 2008, and that is clearly notated by the receiving fax, starting at page 01/36. Page 36/36 is marked 18:16 October 24, 2008. What is interesting is not at the TOP of the fax pages; it is at the bottom.
At the bottom of each page is a notation from another FAX machine, indicating the date, page number and time. Unlike the pages faxed from Judge Surrick’s fax at 18:09, the “name” of the fax sender is blank, presumably so the sender’s identity could not be seen, and obviously with the sender unaware that the date and time would be stamped on it. The fax began from this mystery fax at 04:55P on October 24, 2008, and ended at 05:11P.
From all appearances, the clerk at Judge Surrick’s office merely took the fax off the machine, the Judge signed it, and it was faxed to Mr. Berg and the other attorneys involved in the case.
Why would a decision from the office of Judge Surrick have “fax date & time” stamp at the BOTTOM of its pages when it is faxed to the Plaintiff and Defendants? And why almost simultaneously were all of the docket links disabled on the case in PACER ( I checked other cases, and they weren’t disabled)?
Is it possible that a former law clerk of Judge Surrick, Christoper B. Seaman, might have wrote the decision? Now an attorney, Mr. Seaman is an attorney at the firm of Sidley, Austin in Chicago. Ironically, this is the same firm that employed Michelle Robinson Obama and Bernardine Dorn (wife of William Ayers), and where Barack Obama met Michelle.
If I had to surmise from the manner in which things have evolved in this election process, I would link it to the Obama campaign and lawyers in Chicago. The time in Chicago is an hour behind Pennsylvania, and taking into account the slight few minutes that two fax machines may be off in their time settings, it could be concluded that at 4:55p CT, a law firm in Chicago began faxing the memorandum of the Judge’s decision to the JUDGE, and then his office began faxing it out immediately.
I am in the process of reviewing the memorandum, but one item that immediately caught my attention in a brief glance was this comment in the footnotes:
Moreover, the Court In Bullock did not limit or in any way invalidate votes that had already been cast; nor did it void the results of the elections that had taken place. Se Ed. at 136- 37, 149 (affirming that court’s permanent injunction of the filing fee law). By contrast, Plaintiff would have us derail the democratic process by invalidating a candidate for whom millions of people voted and who underwent excessive vetting during what was one of the most hotIy contested presidential primary in living memory.
Pg 11
Points to Ponder:
(1) Why was the PACER system “links” in the Berg v. Obama docket disabled just MOMENTS before the decision was faxed out? Is it possible that the Judge had actually issued a DIFFERENT ruling, and was FORCED to issue the one that was sent to him?
(2) Does this explain the comments from the Obama camp all through Friday the 24th that ALL Obstacles to the White House had been overcome, and “they now had a clear path.”
209 comments
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October 25, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Independent
Sounds like typical Chicago style politics to me!
October 25, 2008 at 7:45 pm
JAMES
VERY CHICAGO
October 25, 2008 at 7:58 pm
diannac
Ping to this Blog. Brilliant catch sir!! Absolutely brilliant.
October 25, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Vicki
Is this being investigated with Philip Berg?
Why doesn’t someone contact the Judge directly and find out from him to verify the ruling.
October 25, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Magpie
This is a nightmare for patriotic Americans and our families, but I fear it is only going to get worse. Obama has managed to tear this nation apart, and he isn’t even the president yet. I fear for our future.
October 25, 2008 at 8:05 pm
JAMES
Vicki: Mr. Berg’s office is preparing his Supreme Court filing, and I believe they are looking into this as well. Regarding contacting Judge Surrick’s office, the decision was released on Friday evening, obviously to alleviate any contact at the courthouse.
October 25, 2008 at 8:10 pm
JAMES
Magpie: Someone used the term “Media Malpractice” recently… I blame the media for attempting to write this chapter of history instead of simply reporting on it.
October 25, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Vicki
James:
Mr. Berg is preparing his appeal; I understand that, but what will an appeal do, if the Judge already ruled. Why can’t a federal judge favorably rule for this? This is for our next Commander in Chief for heaven sakes! Doesn’t anyone care..or are they just affraid of Obama?
I agree with Magpie, with an additional comment. First, the DNC put our country into this mess; with electing Obama as their candidate. They stole this from Hillary. Obama says that he’s the one to “bring this country together” – what a joke. It’s amazing what “one man” could do to pull our country apart in such a short time period.
This man is so corrupt. His background and belief system that has developed since being a child is very scary to me for a leader of our country. I fear a dictatorship with this man, when you see who he has mentored with.
What else can we do, besides voting on Nov. 4th? The fraudulent votes alone might bring him the presidency – and how long would that take to straighten out – and if that also wouldn’t be swept under the rug, like everything else.
I am so discouraged.
After going to a rally today for McCain in Maryland; I just don’t understand how anyone could vote for Obama.
October 25, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Serafinos
Agree — great catch … but what’s next?
Does this have legs & will media carry any of it for Berg??
Pardon me — I’m just a 50 yr old Vietnam Vets wife scared to death of what is about to take over this country, to the point we’re ready to move back to Texas and seceed from the Union. We lived through the Carter years & fear those will be cherrished as the “good ole days”! 😦 Would laugh – but it’s getting serious, now. Times tic tic ticking away. UGH! lol
Great work — thanks for the updates.
Gods speed!
October 25, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Arizona Desert
We need to ask President Bush to SUSPEND ELECTIONS for 60 days – start over – this isn’t American Idol – this is our future! Call or write President Bush and ask him to suspend the elections – it will take 60 days to sort out all of the fraudulent votes after Nov 4th anyways!
Good detective work on the part of the birth certificate lawsuit. Why would someone let millions of Americans doubt his legality and not grab the first reporter and take them to the courthouse of the county he was born in, and get a copy of his birth certificate? Why would anyone spend money defending this if there wasn’t something to hide? He’s relied on American’s ignorance and his threatening tactics to get as far as he has.
October 25, 2008 at 8:48 pm
JAMES
Hopefully Berg’s Supreme Court filing will be heard and ruled upon before the election. If he is elected and then this garbage comes out, we will have a major crisis on our hands.
Liberalism is one thing, but Obama and his associations are on the line of radicalism (and some have crossed that line).
October 25, 2008 at 9:01 pm
prowlland
could you make that picture larger,,, i can;t make out what your talking about… you know ,,,i found several websites that said Berg had won(early this am)… how strange is that… do you think they saw the verdict before the pacer went down ?theses are the sites I saw them on :
http://xeniagazette.1upmonitor.com/main.asp?SectionID=17&SubSectionID=452&ArticleID=161386&TM=85035.18
http://thestateofamerica.wordpress.com/
http://xeniacitizenjournal.wordpress.com/
October 25, 2008 at 9:11 pm
JAMES
Prowlland: Those sites used Berg’s proposed order on his Motion, filed on Oct 22nd. Look at the last link you put up, and it states the source.
I am trying to enlarge the picture— still a bit new at some of this.
The markings are at the bottom on the left.
The law clerk that is now an attorney at the same firm that Michelle worked at is also an Obama contributor according to the donations list, and of course he has a profile on mybarackobama.com so he can comment on the Obama blog. If this is in fact the scenario in this ruling, I see some Illinois Bar disciplinary action, as well as a problem for the Judge.
October 25, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Serafinos
Prowland — the 1st link goes to a blank other than ads and the second appears to be someone writing about the future without evidence.
1 clue is the writer states Obama was adopted in Kenya when it was Indonesia — which leads me to think they are not factual website. No offense!
IMHO! 🙂
October 25, 2008 at 9:19 pm
prowlland
I guess my pc doesnt have the right settings or something…can’t see it at all…
nite
October 25, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Renea
This is really starting to scare me to know that this man is really above the law.I believe that it is clear that there is more going on than meets the eye.I wonder if maybe if we could all rally enough people up and protest in Washington then someone will have to take notice.Then maybe we might get something done .United we stand divided we fall .
October 25, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Marg
Prowlland
Went on your web sites & access has been denied
October 25, 2008 at 9:32 pm
John-0
(2) Does this explain the comments from the Obama camp all through Friday the 24th that ALL Obstacles to the White House had been overcome, and “they now had a clear path.”
Wasn’t it David Axel Rod who said that? Well he is tied to Sidley Austin.
3-Sidley Austin LLP
Web Results 1 – 100 of about 661 for Sidley Austin LLP, Axelrod. (0.36 seconds) The Supreme Court: Heard At The Hearings
Edna Ball Axelrod Attorney at Law Law Offices of Edna Ball Axelrod South Orange, NJ … Sidley Austin LLP Washington, DC Prepared Testimony, Goodwin Liu …
leahy.senate.gov/issues/SupremeCourt/SCHeardattheHearing.html – 61k – Cached – Similar pagesWork At Home Work At Home Jobs Resume Resources Resume Writing …
David J. Axelrod & Associates Highland Park, IL US Legal Services … Sidley Austin LLP Chicago, IL US Human Resources Legal Services …
jobs.jobbankusa.com/js/jobsearch/jobs.asp?typ=d&career=27&state=IL&city=&area= – 72k – Cached – Similar pages $100,432
4 Henry Crown & Co
[PDF]
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML
Leslie Axelrod. Mr. Robert Babbin ’52. Mr. William C. Bachtel ’46 … Lester Crown. Chairman. Henry Crown and Company. Sondra Berman Epstein …
http://www.iit.edu/president/pdfs/AnnualReport_2004.pdf – Similar pages
CONTRIBUTION- $79,500
http://www.rationalobserver.com/obamapac.htm
October 25, 2008 at 9:34 pm
JAMES
It seems that ALL ROADS lead to David Axelrod!!
October 25, 2008 at 9:38 pm
JAMES
I have added a link under the picture of the decision ruling. The date/time stamp at the bottom appears on all 36 pages. The ruling was “FAXED” to Judge Surrick, and then his office faxed to each of the parties.
October 25, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Ann
This isn’t an election….it’s an attempted nonviolent take over of the country by the Chicago political mob.
A coincidence that the clerk of Judge Surrick works for the same law firm as did Michelle Obama and Dorhn. I think not.
How did they get to Judge Surrick?
October 25, 2008 at 9:47 pm
JAMES
It is a quiet coup
October 25, 2008 at 9:56 pm
JAMES
For those who may be interested, the attorney for Obama is John Lavelle. He is the attorney who represented the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).
October 25, 2008 at 9:59 pm
johnqpublic
i like cheese
October 25, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Lady Texan
Judge Surrick “Received” the Decision He Issued
Jump to Comments
In the “never-ending” drama that is known as the 2008 Presidential election, there is an appearance that the decision issued yesterday by the Honorable Judge R. Barclay Surrick in the matter of Berg v. Obama might have been SENT to the judge just a short time BEFORE he released the decision.
A fax copy of the decision from Judge Surrick was faxed to Mr. Berg from the Judge’s Chambers, pages 1-36, beginning at 18:09 October 24, 2008, and that is clearly notated by the receiving fax, starting at page 01/36. Page 36/36 is marked 18:16 October 24, 2008. What is interesting is not at the TOP of the fax pages; it is at the bottom.
At the bottom of each page is a notation from another FAX machine, indicating the date, page number and time. Unlike the pages faxed from Judge Surrick’s fax at 18:09, the “name” of the fax sender is blank, presumably so the sender’s identity could not be seen, and obviously with the sender unaware that the date and time would be stamped on it. The fax began from this mystery fax at 04:55P on October 24, 2008, and ended at 05:11P.
From all appearances, the clerk at Judge Surrick’s office merely took the fax off the machine, the Judge signed it, and it was faxed to Mr. Berg and the other attorneys involved in the case.
Why would a decision from the office of Judge Surrick have “fax date & time” stamp at the BOTTOM of its pages when it is faxed to the Plaintiff and Defendants? And why almost simultaneously were all of the docket links disabled on the case in PACER ( I checked other cases, and they weren’t disabled)?
Is it possible that a former law clerk of Judge Surrick, Christoper B. Seaman, might have wrote the decision? Now an attorney, Mr. Seaman is an attorney at the firm of Sidley, Austin in Chicago. Ironically, this is the same firm that employed Michelle Robinson Obama and Bernardine Dorn (wife of William Ayers), and where Barack Obama met Michelle.
If I had to surmise from the manner in which things have evolved in this election process, I would link it to the Obama campaign and lawyers in Chicago. The time in Chicago is an hour behind Pennsylvania, and taking into account the slight few minutes that two fax machines may be off in their time settings, it could be concluded that at 4:55p CT, a law firm in Chicago began faxing the memorandum of the Judge’s decision to the JUDGE, and then his office began faxing it out immediately.
I am in the process of reviewing the memorandum, but one item that immediately caught my attention in a brief glance was this comment in the footnotes:
Moreover, the Court In Bullock did not limit or in any way invalidate votes that had already been cast; nor did it void the results of the elections that had taken place. Se Ed. at 136- 37, 149 (affirming that court’s permanent injunction of the filing fee law). By contrast, Plaintiff would have us derail the democratic process by invalidating a candidate for whom millions of people voted and who underwent excessive vetting during what was one of the most hotIy contested presidential primary in living memory.
Pg 11
Points to Ponder:
(1) Why was the PACER system “links” in the Berg v. Obama docket disabled just MOMENTS before the decision was faxed out? Is it possible that the Judge had actually issued a DIFFERENT ruling, and was FORCED to issue the one that was sent to him?
(2) Does this explain the comments from the Obama camp all through Friday the 24th that ALL Obstacles to the White House had been overcome, and “they now had a clear path.”
October 25, 2008 at 10:12 pm
prowlland
Marg… i dont know why… try it again… i wont be there… but sherry will be.. (i think) im still trying to get to bed,,, but i keep finding thing to read !!! 🙂
http://mcpalinmavericks.wordpress.com/
I just checked it out and it worked for me..
October 25, 2008 at 10:15 pm
prowlland
thanks for enlarging that James i can see it nowwwwww ,, nite again !!
October 25, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Brian H
Gawd! That comment at the bottom is pure, Obot, suck-up bumpf! I can’t imagine a judge actually writing that! If he did, he’s been “tanked” all along.
October 25, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Kelvin Hearts PUMAs
This shyster Berg will be disbarred before it even gets to the Supreme court. You tin-foil hat wearing PUMAs are wasting your time with this.
October 25, 2008 at 10:33 pm
koyaan
That’s funny. The copy of the decision posted on Berg’s own website, which is a pdf of the FAX sent to him by Surrick, has no date or time on the bottom of any of the the pages.
Also, the image you show here appears to be a page that was received by Berg from Surrick and subsequently re-sent by Berg some two hours after the time stamp on Surrick’s FAX.
So there’s really no telling where the timestamp at the bottom of the page originated or if it’s even genuine. Again, the decision posted on Berg’s website shows no timestamp on the bottom of any of the pages.
k
October 25, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Eileen
Where is JWB when we need him?
October 25, 2008 at 10:37 pm
koyaan
James wrote:
For those who may be interested, the attorney for Obama is John Lavelle. He is the attorney who represented the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).
That’s incorrect.
The attorney who represented CAIR was Joseph Sandler. He is not representing Obama. He’s representing the DNC. Sandler has been the DNC’s general counsel for years.
k
October 25, 2008 at 10:45 pm
copp
The footnote you quote gives it away. They are the words of someone involved in the Obama campaign not a judge trying to sound impartial. It’s a dead giveaway. Notice the hack cliches and the use of the adjective “excessive” to describe Obama’s supposed “vetting” …. when the correct word should have been the more neutral word (and more common reportorial adjetive “extensive”. This shows it was obviously written by an Obama partisan.
Is there no way to see the “history” of Pacer postings to find a possible previous ruling had appeared there?
Probably it won’t take too much research to uncover how this judge has been compromised and blackmailed by the Democratic machine.
Who would conduct an legal investigation into this transparent fraud?
October 25, 2008 at 10:57 pm
IndyEnquirer
Citizen McCain for President!
October 25, 2008 at 11:05 pm
koyaan
Renea wrote:
This is really starting to scare me to know that this man is really above the law.
He doesn’t appear to be any more above the law than John McCain. The suits brought against McCain were dismissed for the very same reason that Berg’s was dismissed.
But I don’t hear anyone talking about McCain being above the law.
Well, maybe those who had their suits against him thrown out for lack of standing feel that way, but I haven’t seen that sentiment expressed by anyone else.
k
October 25, 2008 at 11:19 pm
koyaan
Arizona Desert wrote:
We need to ask President Bush to SUSPEND ELECTIONS for 60 days – start over – this isn’t American Idol – this is our future!
Under what constitutional authority do you feel the President of the United States has the power to suspend elections?
If the President can suspend elections for 60 days, what would prevent his suspending them indefinitely?
That’s a rather scary thought if you ask me. Elections weren’t even suspended during the height of the Civil War in 1864.
k
October 26, 2008 at 1:17 am
Odanneyboy
Please take a look at my new piece this was wrote weeks ago
http://www.socyberty.com/Government/2008-Civil-War-in-America.294657
October 26, 2008 at 2:12 am
eloivsdiablo
There is always impeachment proceedings after he wins, but I’m afraid a civil war will come to pass and bring in exactly what OB and his cohorts desire, the end of the first and second amendments accompanied by marshal law. Ultimate control and the end of liberty. I know, I know, the fat lady hasn’t sung yet, or has she..?
October 26, 2008 at 5:16 am
MBS
Wouldn’t Hilary have standing?
October 26, 2008 at 5:44 am
Debbie
If Obama thugs have this much power now what will it be if he is elected. This country is supposed to be about we the people!!!
October 26, 2008 at 6:44 am
JAMES
Koyaan: First, the suit regarding McCain’s citizenship was dismissed for about the same reason. But his suit also lacked merit because McCain’s citizenship was encompassed in the citizenship act that was passed in the 30’s, when he was an infant, and it covered his birth situation: born to US Citizens serving in our armed forces, etc. Obama was born under a naturalization law that was in effect from 1947 well into the 80’s, if he was not born in the US. Aside from where he was born, his Indonesian citizenship severed his US citizenship. I think this is where the key factor will ultimately rest.
As far as suspending the elections, short of declaring martial law, I don’t see the President having that kind of power; as you said, not even at the height of the civil war did we see such.
October 26, 2008 at 6:45 am
JAMES
We, the People, have watched our media decide how this election season will occur.
October 26, 2008 at 6:57 am
Interested Bystander
koyaan,
You are right, McCain’s lawsuits were dismissed for the same reason.
The BIG difference is that McCain submitted all of the disovery asked for in the case. Can you state the same for your candidate?
JAMES,
Great post. Seems as if the Obama supporters have been given a “heads up” on your post, and have been dispatched to argue on his behalf.
One of the arguments that I have seen posted at various places is that Obama’s Certification of Live Birth allows Obama to apply for a passport or a State driver’s license. Although this arguement is true, it does not satisfy the requirement to become President. They make a good arguement, but they do not address the problem for eligibility of the Office of President.
To all of those who are defending Obama on this, just answer these simple questions.
Why, when this man is running for the most powerful position in the world, is it that he won’t prove he is eligible?
Why is it that he stated at the beginning of his campaign that he would be the most “transparent” candidate, and now will not even show us his college papers?
Why do you have to submit to an even greater vetting to work at McDonalds, then to be President?
Why are we even at this stage in the process, and still Obama will not provide what has been asked of him for over 4 months now?
His silence speaks volumes to me.
October 26, 2008 at 6:58 am
dissfunktional
Checking justia today indicates that Obama has been court ordered off of the ballots and all campaigning is to stop.
Barack Obama Has Been Court Ordered Removed From November Ballot – Campaigning To Stop Immediately
October 26, 2008 at 7:10 am
Emery
Great post and great work! This might explain the story on Rense.com and rumor mills about an article that appeared on http://xeniagazette.1upmonitor.com/ about a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RULING and then was yanked from the site.
Here are the links to the story.
http://www.rense.com/general83/lefdal.htm
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=134521
October 26, 2008 at 7:52 am
JAMES
Dissfunktional: Those are the proposed orders that accompanied the Motions. They aren’t actual orders unless signed by the Judge.
October 26, 2008 at 8:01 am
dissfunktional
Emery – agree agree!
October 26, 2008 at 8:10 am
Janey Gore
This is SICKENING and MUST BE OUTTED.
EXPOSE THIS INJUSTICE!!!!!!!
October 26, 2008 at 9:03 am
Realist0112
Does Mr. Berg know about this? what about the RNC? this is incredible someone has to do something about this. It is a clear “conflic of interest” We need a senator or congressman with a lots of b—s to come out with this and ask for an investigation. It looks to coinsidential. Something wrong is going on in this country and no one is willing to let us know.
October 26, 2008 at 9:32 am
dissfunktional
“Under Obama’s massive plan for wealth redistribution, 44 percent of Americans will never pay federal income taxes, and many of these folks will also receive bonus, or ‘welfare,’ checks from the government.”
Obama voted 94 times for higher taxes in the Senate and promised trillions of dollars in new spending, despite the fact that 44 percent of Americans already don’t pay income taxes.
“He wants to achieve his brand of social justice through wealth redistribution, while completely ignoring economic growth. When you combine his socialist redistribution plan and his plan to raise barriers to free trade, you have toxic mix that could drive the American economy deep into depression.”
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78762
If my boss makes less money, and he will if Obama is elected president, so will I. I want my boss to make money, and also have the money to hire people as he needs them – providing more jobs. Obama’s plan will have a negative impact on our economy such that we’ve never seen. People will be having an even more difficult time finding jobs than they are today.
No wonder Biden warned everybody that everything is going to tank within 6 months if Obama is elected.
And – if he’s going to raise taxes on 95% of ..who? just those that go to work every day and keep our nation moving… or all Americans… does that include illegals too?, and 44% aren’t paying income taxes TODAY to begin with … is this guy for real? Is anybody this stupid?
I will be one of many who will simply not be paying income taxes anymore. I’ll take that bonus thank you. Why work? Screw it – I’ll join that 44%.
I won’t need to spend money on gas driving to and from work anymore, no need to buy the proper attire for business work, no more hair products unless I’m going some place nice. Won’t be going to restaurants during lunch hour any longer, I’ll be home or wherever else I want to be, doing whatever I want to. Blogging about what an idiot he is most likely. Assuming we still have speech left. I’ll get rid of a car, not have to pay the car insurance or make car payments, or have to pay the sales taxes on future vehicles.
Now that I’m one of the 44% I’ll be in the income threshold that will allow me to enroll in the utility programs where those that do pay their utilities will have to pay for mine.
Charities will miss me but hey – there’s plenty to go around. I’m sure they’ll find a way to stay afloat without donations.
Obama can hook the charities all up with his buddies at ACORN and the many Unions being run by/offshoots of ACORN. They’ve already given millions and millions and millions to his campaign, surely they’ll continue to ‘spread that wealth around’, to everybody, regardless of skin color. Minor adjustment would need to be made there by ACORN but surely they’ll chip in.
The first and second ammendment will be gone, compliments of Obama.
The poor will be poorer, the middle class will be poor and the rich will be middle class. The rich already pay 95% of our taxes and many currently give away a substantial amount to charities.
Obama will instead be taking a revolting amount from everyone’s paycheck (except those that don’t pay income taxes – they get a “bonus” (your money) ) and dividing it all up the way he sees fit. Obama and his buddies… who happen to never be American – unless they too happen to be terrorists or have terrorist ties.
After what he did to Chicago in a short period, imagine the damage he would do to the most powerful country on the planet if you gave him that key.
I’m grateful I don’t have children. Children of today will be suffering from what he did long after we’re gone.
October 26, 2008 at 9:33 am
Richard
I am so sick of people playing the ‘race” card! If America was TRULY as racist as people claim, we would not even have a black man as the nominee for one of the parties. Think about it! Obama, and his surrogates, use the race card far too often. It is used when they are being questioned about Obama’s past, and they don’t want to provide the information.
Here is what I want to know:
1. Doesn’t anyone else find it funny that his own grandmother has not shown up to any functions since even before he was elected a State Senator? There is only one relative, his half sister, that has shown up at events or spoken about Barack. Barack claims he has a large extended family in his books, and yet none of them have been allowed to speak! No one finds that odd?
2. Don’t you find it odd that he will not release or open his files from his college days? Could it be that he applied as a Kenyan citizen or Indonesian citizen (both of which he was, at one time or another, a citizen of—-as he has now admitted)? It can’t be because of his bad grades because he already let the world know that in his books.
3. How can he go to a church for 20 years–a church that spewed hate against ‘white america’ and act as if he never heard any of it? 20 years and never heard any of it? Come on, and I just fell off the turnip truck yesterday!
4. You don’t find it odd that no one from his past has come forward to say, “yes, I was his college roommate and he was a great guy” or “I dated him in college” or “I was in the same club as him in college”. This is the first Presidential candidate who virtually has no one coming from his past to share stories or vouch for him. Odd and unusual to say the least.
5. The few associations he has had made public are all radicals. William Ayers who tried to bomb the pentagon, police stations, the capital, etc. Rezko who is now under endictment for a myriad of illegal acts and will be put in jail for the rest of his life, Reverend Wright who he states in his book was his role model ( you know, the man who says ‘God damn America in his sermon, as well as that the US government started AIDS to get rid of black people”), the list goes on and on.
6. Don’t you find it odd that a Democratic attorney had to file a Federal lawsuit to get Barack Obama to provide his “vault version” of his birth certificate to prove his eligibility to become President, according to the Constitution of the United States, instead of the fraudulent birth certificate (short version) that was deemed credible by factcheck.org (which by the way, is funded by the Anneneburg Foundation–the board Obama sat on for years and Ayers is still apart of–no conflict of interest there!). Instead of making the lawsuit go away instantly by providing the vault version of his birth certificate, he has refused to do so. Wouldn’t logic dictate to provide it and the lawsuit would go away?
7. Don’t you find it odd that both he and his sister state Barack was born at two different hospitals in Hawaii and yet neither hospital has a record of him being born there?
8. Don’t you find it odd that his own Kenyan Grandmother is on video tape stating that “she was in the delivery room during the birth of Barack in Kenya and is so proud of him”. If he was born in Kenya, that would make him ineligible to run for President of the United States as his mother was not in the military and his father was Kenyan?
9. Don’t even get me started about his Kenyan cousin Odinga, who has committed genocide in the name of winning an election. The same cousin Obama, in the last year, visited in Kenya and endorsed and gave him a campaign staffer to help Odinga with running his campaign.
10. Don’t you find it odd that the mainstream media refuses to question Obama on any of these tough issues. And the rare time they do, they take his answer as ‘gospel’ and forget about the story?
These are but a few of the giant, red flags that are going up about Obama. I am a liberal Democrat, and this raises enough questions for me that I will NOT vote for him. Think about your vote people. This is about the Constitution of the United States. You know, that little document in which our entire government was founded upon?
I, for one, refuse to ‘drink the Kool-Aid’ and follow blindly. It sickens me, as a loyal and liberal Democrat, that Obama would put our country and our entire political system in jeopardy like this . The man has an ego the size of Texas. Again, I don’t want to tell people how to vote, but please at least be an informed voter when you go to the polls.
October 26, 2008 at 9:36 am
custador
*gasp* Two fax machines with different times? And different formats? CONSPIRACY!
October 26, 2008 at 9:40 am
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
Koyaan: First, the suit regarding McCain’s citizenship was dismissed for about the same reason. But his suit also lacked merit because McCain’s citizenship was encompassed in the citizenship act that was passed in the 30’s, when he was an infant, and it covered his birth situation: born to US Citizens serving in our armed forces, etc.
Yes. Though the fundamental issue here is standing. If the plaintiff lacks standing to have brought the suit in the first place, all else is moot.
Obama was born under a naturalization law that was in effect from 1947 well into the 80’s, if he was not born in the US.
Yes. The key phrase being “if he was not born in the US.” However thus far there has not been one shred of credible evidence that he was born anyplace other than Hawaii.
Aside from where he was born, his Indonesian citizenship severed his US citizenship. I think this is where the key factor will ultimately rest.
That’s incorrect.
A minor child with US citizenship does not lose their US citizenship even if a parent or guardian has them naturalized in another country.
As per the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, the only way Obama could have lost his US citizenship is if he had not established permanent residence in the United States prior to his twenty-fifth birthday.
He returned to the US when he was ten years old and had established permanent residency long before his twenty-fifth birthday.
And this just exemplifies why Berg is ultimately his own worst enemy when it comes to this case.
He didn’t fact check or research any of his evidence. The evidence Berg presents in his case was literally nothing more than stuff he’d read on the Internet.
This is how he ended up doing such goofy things as referencing, under “FACTUAL ALLEGATIONS,” a Canadian birth certificate in Obama’s name giving his date of birth as August 23rd, 1961.
If Berg had exercised just a modicum of due diligence, he would have discovered that the Canadian birth certificate in question was intentionally created as a joke.
He would have noticed that the Canadian birth certificate was issued by the province of Ontario, but the birthplace was given as Vancouver, in the province of British Columbia.
He would have noticed that the certificate number was “BR 549” which anyone who had watched any of the old Hee-Haw shows on TV would have instantly recognized (it was the telephone number for Samples Sales, a regular skit performed by Junior Samples).
And finally, he would have noticed that the certificate was signed by “Dudley Doright,” a cartoon character featured on the old Rocky & Bullwinkle Show (Doright was a Canadian Mountie).
But he didn’t.
That’s because he just unquestioningly stuffed whatever he found on the Internet into his lawsuit.
With regard to Indonesian citizenship, he unquestioningly relied on the writings of an anonymous poster on the TexasDarlin blog who goes by the pseudonym “Judah Benjamin” (the name of the first Attorney General of the Confederacy during the Civil War).
Benjamin cited the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, but only gave readers half the story. He quoted the portion of the law saying that one would lose their US citizenship, but failed (quite intentionally I believe) to quote the proviso that this would only be the case if they had not established permanent residence in the United States prior to their twenty-fifth birthday.
As with the Canadian birth certificate, Berg did absolutely nothing to substantiate Benjamin’s claims. He accepted them blindly which not only effectively sabotages his own case, but also opens himself up to sanctions by the court for utterly failing to exercise any sort of due diligence, something which is required of every attorney.
As far as suspending the elections, short of declaring martial law, I don’t see the President having that kind of power; as you said, not even at the height of the civil war did we see such.
I’m glad we agree on this. The notion of any president having the power to suspend elections is truly frightening.
k
October 26, 2008 at 9:43 am
huxbux
I find it disheartening how so many of you make the logical fallacy of confusing correlation with causation.
October 26, 2008 at 9:48 am
Catherine
koyaan
We wouldn’t even be in this comment section discussing this if Obama would just present his actual birth certificate and all his records from colleges. Joe the plumber and Sarah Palin were raked over the coals and we the people can’t ask for this information?
October 26, 2008 at 10:07 am
koyaan
Interested Bystander wrote:
koyaan,
You are right, McCain’s lawsuits were dismissed for the same reason.
The BIG difference is that McCain submitted all of the disovery asked for in the case.
That’s absolutely incorrect.
McCain submitted nothing other than a motion to dismiss due to plaintiff’s lack of standing.
Why, when this man is running for the most powerful position in the world, is it that he won’t prove he is eligible?
Prove to whom exactly?
What entity with any lawful authority regarding the election of the President of the United States as it relates to Article II of the Constitution of the United Stats has requested proof that he is eligible?
None that I’m aware of.
Why do you have to submit to an even greater vetting to work at McDonalds, then to be President?
Because McDonald’s can as for whatever they want. However our government is bound by the Constitution, which stipulates only three requirements for the office of President.
k
October 26, 2008 at 10:08 am
Judge Avoids Deciding on Barack Obama’s Citizenship Status « Samaritans Scalawags Scoundrels & Fleecing the Sheep
[…] age where every word and document is carefully scrutinized and then exchanged across the Internet – the integrity of the fax sent by the judge has been called into question and has now become part of… The claims surrounding the authenticity of Barack Obama’s legal citizenship are either factual or […]
October 26, 2008 at 10:25 am
dissfunktional
koyaan wrote:
Negative – Obama has not proven he was born in Hawaii; if he would it would make all of this go away. Just need a birth certificate. That easy.
October 26, 2008 at 10:26 am
dissfunktional
Obama does not meet the qualifications to be in his own secret service.
October 26, 2008 at 10:31 am
JAMES
Even if Obama proves he was born in the US, despite my reservations to that being probable, the issue still stands that he lost his US citizenship when he became an Indonesian citizenship. There is absolutely no way around the facts that created his Indonesian citizenship.
Koyaan, yes the issue is standing, not the facts or merits of the case as a whole. But even if Berg does not have standing to bring this to the Supreme Court, as one commentor noted last night, it will be a PR nightmare for Obama spinmasters to spin to the general public that a registered voter does not have the right to bring a case against a potential candidate.
October 26, 2008 at 10:36 am
JAMES
I cannot stress enough that even the vault birth certificate in Hawaii is not conclusive evidence that he was born there, but in a court of law, it would be presumed as true. I say its not conclusive because at that time, you could walk into the hospitals or the Health Dept and “record” the birth. It will be interesting to see who supplied and signed the birth information record. The report was allegedly recorded 4 days after his birth. Being in the same age group, I have checked my birth certificate, and it was signed and dated the day after my birth; same for my children. That means nothing in the overall spectrum; simply leaves open the room for doubt.
October 26, 2008 at 10:38 am
Brian
Koyaan-Why all of this sillyness. Obama and his campaign could end this immediately by producing his birth certificate. Not the computer generated one on his website, that is a joke. So why all of the evading? Why keep this question going? Unless they have something to hide. Best possible way is to get it, show it to the McCain campaign and then have McCain pronounce Obama as a U.S. citizen. This seems simple enough, but no let’s fight this, let’s dodge the issue. This is nonsense, unless Obama is not a citizen. To continue to evade just makes the case for Berg.
October 26, 2008 at 10:38 am
JAMES
October 26, 2008 at 10:46 am
Brian
JAMES-The exact location of Obama’s birth is where? At home or in a hospital. If at a hospital there would be records there perhaps. If at home there is no way to confirm location of his birth. Parents could then register this without confirmation. All this aside, his mother then remarried and moved to another country where he became a citizen. Years ago my mother and my sister lost their citizenship, both were born in the USA, my father was an immigrant and at that time the law stated that this would be the case. A few years later this law was changed and my mom and sis received their citizenship back. This was over 70 years ago and things change.
October 26, 2008 at 10:54 am
PopeRatzo
I think the reason that the Obama campaign isn’t making a big deal of this is that they’re waiting for Sarah Palin or John McCain to bring the issue up.
Several highly responsible people have examined Barack’s actual birth certificate physically. there are even close-up, high-resolution photographs of the certificate including a side shot showing that the official Hawaii seal is really three-dimensional. There has been a standing offer for anyone to view Barack’s actual birth certificate which is currently at Obama headquarters in Chicago, and several GOP and RNC lawyers have actually done so. They accept it as real, as have World Net Daily, The Wall Street Journal, Fox News Special Investigations (which used a documents expert from the Secret Service, retired).
This entire issue was brought up half a decade ago when Barack was preparing to run for US Senate, and a judge threw out the case back then, too.
Do you all have any idea how crazy you sound? Is having a black president that frightening to you?
October 26, 2008 at 11:04 am
Donna
Why Doesnt obama just tell the damn truth? I voted early,for John Mccain! I’m a democrat: why didnt i vote for obama? Because of the dishonesty of the democratic party when the SELECTED thier NOMINEE! WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO FORCE OBAMA ON US??? THEY STOLE THE NOMINATION FROM HILLARY AND HANDED IT TO HIM!!! Noooooobama!!!! NOway!!!!!
October 26, 2008 at 11:10 am
johnwx1
James-The faxed document on Philip Berg’s Obamascrimes.com does not have the central time zone stamp. Why?
October 26, 2008 at 11:15 am
huxbux
@James
Dual citizenship is not considered a voluntary relinquishment of American citizenship according to Supreme Court findings.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=387&page=253
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=444&page=252
October 26, 2008 at 11:26 am
JAMES
At the time Obama became a citizen of Indonesia, dual citizenship with the US was not recognized. Further, if he used his Indonesian passport to travel as an adult to Pakistan, at a time when US citizens could not travel to Pakistan, that would be deemed an overt act to accept his Indonesian citizenship and renounce his US citizenship. If this was all resolved in prior court cases in Illinois a decade ago, where are those cases and why have the Obama camp not presented them? The birth certificate the Obama camp is showing IS NOT the original document; it is not the one that would have the initial vitals (wt, time, etc.) and signed by the doctor. He is showing a computer document that the states issue when requested later.
Born at a hospital? Which one? He has, on different occasions, stated he was born at BOTH hospitals in Honolulu at the time. His sister has said the same thing in different interviews. Neither hospital will confirm that Stanley Ann Dunham was a patient at either hospital.
Let’s put the hospital into a “historical” light: If you were the director of the hospital where a possible next President was born, especially a biracial candidate, and the first from the 50th state, would not that be prominently featured in every piece of advertisement being done at this time.
October 26, 2008 at 11:32 am
koyaan
age where every word and document is carefully scrutinized and then exchanged across the Internet – the integrity of the fax sent by the judge has been called into question and has now become part of… The claims surrounding the authenticity of Barack Obama’s legal citizenship are either factual or
Look, here is a pdf of the ruling posted by Berg on his own website. It was created from the FAX sent to him by Judge Surrick:
045_Obama, Judge Surrick Ruling 10 24 2008.pdf
Note that there is no date/time stamp on the bottoms of the pages. Only the date/time stamp at the tops of the pages from the pages having been FAXed from Surrick’s office to Berg.
As I said previously, the image posted here was apparently FAXed by Berg after his having received it from Surrick so there’s no telling where it went from there, who received it and how the date/time stamp came to be on the bottom of the pages.
But from the ruling posted on Berg’s own website, it clearly wasn’t there when it was FAXed to Berg by Surrick.
k
October 26, 2008 at 11:36 am
Ladyhawke
In today’s legal world are rulings like this typically faxed?
I would think email/internet would be used – unless you intentionally wanted to leave a murky trail.
Of course, Judge Surrick had to fax it, once he received it in such a matter.
Curious!
October 26, 2008 at 11:50 am
JAMES
Actually LadyHawke, the pdf file on Berg’s site do show the bottom markings on some of the pages, slightly. In scanning the document to pdf, the copying may have not shown the bottom markings. I received the ruling in both pdf format and .tif format, with the bottom clearly showing. It was an issue that probably had first been overlooked when Berg received it.
How ironic though, that just moments before the decision was faxed to Berg’s office, the entire PACER system for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania had all docket documents disabled!
This being such a small world, it is probably just coincidental that Judge Surrick’s former law clerk, Christopher B. Seaman, is now an associate at the law firm of Sidley, Austin in Chicago, the same firm that Michelle Obama worked at when she met her husband. And it is just coincidental that Chicago is in the central time zone, one hour behind Pennsylvania, which would make the time of a fax TO Judge Surrick within the time stamp on the papers.
October 26, 2008 at 11:52 am
huxbux
I’ll have to look into State Department procedures that qualify as the renunciation of American citizenship, and if traveling to a state US citizens are barred from visiting meets those requirements.
I do know that Supreme Court rulings have been found to be retroactive and not subject to grandfathering.
http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov:8080/isysnative/RDpcT3BpbnNcT1BOXDA2LTU3MjMtY3Zfb3BuLnBkZg==/06-5723-cv_opn.pdf#xml=http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov:8080/isysquery/irl3176/16/hilite
October 26, 2008 at 11:53 am
mrje
ABSOLUTELY AMAZING !!
So The Judge’s decision was HANDED DOWN TO HIM BY SOMEONE ELSE???
AND… WOW!
“”Now an attorney, Mr. Seaman is an attorney at the firm of Sidley, Austin in Chicago. Ironically, this is the same firm that employed Michelle Robinson Obama and Bernardine Dorn (wife of William Ayers), and where Barack Obama met Michelle.””
SO…that someone else, happens to have a past that crosses Ayers’s & Obama’s ??? MY MY HOW SMALL IS THE WORLD?
Seems EVERYTHING gets tied back to this corrupt crowd!!
Amazing. Absolutely Amazing !!!
October 26, 2008 at 11:57 am
JAMES
If Obama used an Indonesian passport, he would have to be acknowledging that he is a citizen of that country! Under their law, he became a citizen when Lolo Soetoro acknowledged him as his son and enrolled him in school in Indonesia– only Indonesian citizens could attend school in Indonesia.
October 26, 2008 at 12:04 pm
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
Even if Obama proves he was born in the US, despite my reservations to that being probable, the issue still stands that he lost his US citizenship when he became an Indonesian citizenship.
I’m sorry, but that’s simply incorrect.
The 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act is quite clear on this subject:
LOSS OF NATIONALITY BY NATIVE-BORN OR NATURALIZED CITIZEN
SEC. 349. (a) From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by–
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon application filed in his behalf by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, or through naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, 0r as a result of a naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday.
That’s the federal law that was on the books at the time Obama was taken to Indonesia by his mother.
And as I have previously stated, even if Obama had obtained Indonesian citizenship, he did not lose his US citizenship. As the law clearly states, he would only lose his US citizenship if he had not taken up permanent residence in the US by his twenty-fifth birthday.
The law is quite clear on this.
The problem is that “Judah Benjamin” and Berg are only feeding you half the story. They leave out what the law says after “Provided.”
In other words, you are being lied to.
If you don’t care that you’re being lied to, that’s no skin off my nose. But you should at least be made aware of this fact.
k
October 26, 2008 at 12:20 pm
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
I say its not conclusive because at that time, you could walk into the hospitals or the Health Dept and “record” the birth.
I haven’t seen any evidence to support that claim. Like so many things on the Internet, people can simply make an unsubstantiated claim and it’s gets accepted as fact and spread all over the place.
It will be interesting to see who supplied and signed the birth information record. The report was allegedly recorded 4 days after his birth. Being in the same age group, I have checked my birth certificate, and it was signed and dated the day after my birth; same for my children. That means nothing in the overall spectrum; simply leaves open the room for doubt.
I know of four other Hawaiian certificates that have surfaced since this became an issue.
The Smith certificate gives a birth date of January 19th, and a filing date of January 24th.
The DeCosta certificate gives a birth date of May 14th and a filing date of May 27th.
The Tomoyasu certificate gives a birth date of October 4th, and a filing date of October 7th.
The “Dan” certificate gives a birth date of June 21st, and a filing date of June 25th.
So there is absolutely nothing unusual about Obama’s certificate having a filing date four days after the date of birth.
k
October 26, 2008 at 12:21 pm
John
DECISION SHOCKING BEYOND BELIEF; SHOWS JUDICIAL ANARCHY AND LAWLESSNESS.
Every registered US citizen voter has standing because he could be deceived into voting for a person not legally eligible to be in office. This is a typical “result oriented” unethical judge who makes up bogus excuses to fabricate the result he wants.
RNC and other lawyers who care about justice and law must file many similar cases in each of the 50+ states. Some judges in other juridictions might be more ethical, honest and will follow
the law and not lie “there is no standing”, when in fact, every registered voter does have standing.
This will also increase the odds of winning, at least in some states, create more media attention, and make
the courts aware of its bigger national importance issue and to dramatically improve the chances
of Supreme Court hearing it and throwing Obama out.
If Obama is now thrown out, people will know that the Judiciary is just a member of GSOC (government sponsored organized crime) and people will be filled with disgust and
disrepect for the law and the lawless Judiciary.
October 26, 2008 at 12:41 pm
koyaan
Brian wrote:
Koyaan-Why all of this sillyness. Obama and his campaign could end this immediately by producing his birth certificate.
If you had read Berg’s lawsuit, you would know that this is not the case.
This is because Berg claims in his lawsuit that Obama lost his US citizenship when he was taken to Indonesia by his mother. So providing a birth certificate would not clear this up as per Berg’s lawsuit.
Not the computer generated one on his website, that is a joke.
It’s not computer generated. It is a scan (albeit not the best scan owing to the brightness/contrast being rather messed up) of the paper document that is kept at Obama’s campaign headquarters in Chicago.
So why all of the evading? Why keep this question going? Unless they have something to hide.
You’ll have to ask the Obama campaign.
However speaking for myself, if some quack attorney took me to court demanding something of me based on false and unsubstantiated claims, I wouldn’t be inclined to be terribly accommodating to them.
But that’s just me.
Best possible way is to get it, show it to the McCain campaign and then have McCain pronounce Obama as a U.S. citizen.
People have been calling and EMailing McCain, Hillary and everyone else they can think of about this for months now.
k
October 26, 2008 at 12:45 pm
True HCLB
Obama has never provided his original birth certificate to anyone. There’s nothing more to say. This is a sure of a fact as the sun rising this morning.
Proof?
Here:
http://www.tinyurl.com/HCLB1963
shortcut to
The “factcheck version” is at best a real certification . . . at worst, a fake. IT IS NOT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
Compare this with a REAL HAWAIIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE from 1963 – link above.
Oh, they didn’t keep records before 1963? That’s very funny because the State of Hawaii advertises that they have records going back into the 1800’s . . . records before 1903 being printed exclusively from the microfilmed copy.
No, the worms didn’t eat this. It just is not there and never was there . . . or . . . there’s something on it that will blow the election apart.
October 26, 2008 at 12:51 pm
koyaan
By the way, I’d just like to take a moment to thank JAMES for allowing an open discussion of this issue here.
Most places are viscerally intolerant of any views they disagree with and will either not allow posts, delete posts, or ban users toward those ends.
This includes Phil Berg himself by the way.
Even though he publicly stated on his website that he welcomed comments and that posting comments on his website constituted free speech protected by the First Amendment (which technically it isn’t, but that’s exactly what he said), he has been systematically banning people from posting there who have done nothing more than respectfully disagree.
So kudos to JAMES for having some cojones and not hiding behind the cowardice of intolerance.
k
October 26, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Sadly, No! » Ask Mrs. O’Sadly
[…] asks: Why was the PACER system “links” in the Berg v. Obama docket disabled just MOMENTS before the […]
October 26, 2008 at 12:56 pm
koyaan
PopeRatzo wrote:
This entire issue was brought up half a decade ago when Barack was preparing to run for US Senate, and a judge threw out the case back then, too.
Could you (or anyone else who has information about it) provide a citation for this? I’ve not heard this claim before.
k
October 26, 2008 at 1:13 pm
dissfunktional
are they paying you well “koyaan”?
October 26, 2008 at 1:15 pm
What
I have the PDF of Surrick’s ruling right in front of me from Berg’s website. The screenshot you have of page 36 doesn’t even exist in the PDF, and the real PDF is so low quality that you can barely read anything, yet your screenshot is quite clear.
So, where did you get that? Because it’s not anywhere in anything Berg has offered up for download on his website.
October 26, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Jr.
koyaan, you stated that the date is not on the pdf on Berg’s link. Look at page 10 and several others pages on that link. The pages have been cut at the bottom. The page number on the lower right proves that. On page 10 you’ll see “page 10” with a slight cut on the bottom that deletes the rest of the fonts. You can use any picture software to find out that cut extends all the way to the right where you see a couple of dots and the rest deleted under it. Even drawing a straight line proves it. On this pic, the time/date fonts are actually lower than the page number fonts and shows why they were cut mush more. You can actually copy the time/date fonts from here, shrink them, and it actually is a 90% fix to those dots. Especially after “OCT”. Try it yourself.
October 26, 2008 at 1:28 pm
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
At the time Obama became a citizen of Indonesia, dual citizenship with the US was not recognized.
Even if that were true, so what?
Indonesia not recognizing dual citizenship with the US has absolutely nothing to do with Obama’s US citizenship as per US law, which I have addressed previously.
All it could possibly mean if it is true is that Obama never had legitimate Indonesian citizenship as per Indonesian law.
Further, if he used his Indonesian passport to travel as an adult to Pakistan, at a time when US citizens could not travel to Pakistan, that would be deemed an overt act to accept his Indonesian citizenship and renounce his US citizenship.
There was nothing preventing US citizens from traveling to Pakistan at the time. This is yet another myth that has been created by someone making an unsubstantiated claim on the Internet which people have unquestioningly believed and passed it on as Gospel.
In fact there was a piece in the New York Times’ Travel section about Pakistan back in 1981 when Obama went there. Not only were US citizens NOT prevented from traveling to Pakistan, but Pakistan was actually encouraging tourism.
Now, the State Department issues Travel Alerts and Travel Warnings, but these are only advisory in nature and do not prevent people from traveling to countries for which there is an Alert or Warning.
Born at a hospital? Which one? He has, on different occasions, stated he was born at BOTH hospitals in Honolulu at the time.
I don’t recall Obama himself making any claims regarding which hospital he was born at. Do you have a source for this?
k
October 26, 2008 at 1:32 pm
custador
Birth certificate: Martin falsely claimed in a September 22 column that “[w]e have not seen a valid Obama birth certificate.” In fact, as Media Matters has repeatedly documented, in addition to posting a copy of Obama’s birth certificate on the campaign website, the Obama campaign reportedly provided the original to FactCheck.org, whose staff reported that they “have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate,” and that it “meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship.”
October 26, 2008 at 1:37 pm
QuakerDave
“We need to ask President Bush to SUSPEND ELECTIONS for 60 days…”
Hey, how about a side order of martial law while you’re at it? Why not? Democracy doesn’t seem to sit well with you folks, so why not put the troops and tanks out on the street when the outcome isn’t to your liking?
There’s some seriously delusional “thinking” going on on this blog. Get a hobby.
October 26, 2008 at 1:38 pm
koyaan
Ladyhawke wrote:
In today’s legal world are rulings like this typically faxed?
I would think email/internet would be used – unless you intentionally wanted to leave a murky trail.
Of course, Judge Surrick had to fax it, once he received it in such a matter.
Curious!
I have the scanned copy from the court. It’s not a scan of a FAXed document.
k
October 26, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Phil Z.
The National Security Agency monitors almost all phone traffic using supercomputers to key on any number of targeted words, e.g. bomb, RPG-7, kilo, et al., so it is reasonable to assume that any fax in this case would have been intercepted and read. This is one way any judicial malfeasance might be found out.
On a related matter, there are reportedly several other suits pending with the same cause of action in different states. Where are those suits and how do we follow their progress?
October 26, 2008 at 1:48 pm
koyaan
huxbux wrote:
I’ll have to look into State Department procedures that qualify as the renunciation of American citizenship, and if traveling to a state US citizens are barred from visiting meets those requirements.
US citizens were not barred from traveling to Pakistan at the time Obama went there.
Now, US citizens are barred from traveling to Cuba. At least directly. However many US citizens travel to other countries and from there to Cuba. And to my knowledge, none of these US citizens have lost their US citizenship.
Again, this whole thing about not being able to travel to Pakistan is a myth. And unless one is intentionally trying to mislead people, as some clearly are, it needs to stop being repeated.
k
October 26, 2008 at 1:58 pm
kayel
I too am against Obama, and hope and pray that he is not elected. That said, my big question is, how has he been able to receive security clearances if all of this stuff is not available or sealed? I had background investigations done on me and they left no stone unturned. Wouldn’t the FBI/Secret Service be able to access the school records? I find it hard to believe that any potenial candidate for POTUS is not throughly investigated by the supersnoops.
October 26, 2008 at 2:08 pm
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
If Obama used an Indonesian passport, he would have to be acknowledging that he is a citizen of that country!
However there’s not one shred of evidence that he used an Indonesian passport when he went to Pakistan.
Under their law, he became a citizen when Lolo Soetoro acknowledged him as his son and enrolled him in school in Indonesia– only Indonesian citizens could attend school in Indonesia.
If the claims regarding Indonesian law are to be believed, and that Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship, Obama could not have become an Indonesian citizen.
Also, Indonesian law does not dictate to the US when any of its citizens are to lose their US citizenship. That’s prescribed under US law. And as I have shown previously, Obama would not have lost his US citizenship even if he were naturalized as an Indonesian citizen.
Again, all this Indonesian citizenship stuff comes from “Judah Benjamin” over on the TexasDarlin blog, and as has been shown, he’s been less than honest.
It was Berg’s mistake for not having researched any of Benjamin’s claims himself. In fact, in Berg’s initial filing, you can find passages that were taken verbatim from Benjamin’s postings over on TexasDarlin.
k
October 26, 2008 at 2:17 pm
koyaan
John wrote:
Every registered US citizen voter has standing because he could be deceived into voting for a person not legally eligible to be in office. This is a typical “result oriented” unethical judge who makes up bogus excuses to fabricate the result he wants.
If that is the case, then the “result” the judge delivered in the Berg v. Obama case was the exact same “result” that John McCain and the RNC expected the two judges to deliver in the two cases brought against them.
However I don’t see anyone accusing those judges of being “result oriented,” unethical, and who make up bogus excuses to fabricate the results they want.
k
October 26, 2008 at 2:22 pm
JAMES
Koyaan:
Ann Dunham married an Indonesian and moved there. The only way for her son to attend school there was to be a citizen of Indonesia. I have no clue who Judah Benjamin is that you are referring to.
No shred of evidence that he travelled to Pakistan? On an Indonesian passport. Research the era that Obama himself said he went to Pakistan. He would not have been permitted access with a US passport, mor would the US have allowed it, having a travel ban to Pakistan at the time. Even flying from US to Indonesia on US Passport would have required an Indonesian passport for any travel into Pakistan.
This is all so very simple: Mr. Obama, release your records and put this to rest.
October 26, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Bob
koyaan, do you realize that this is severe and unacceptable publicity for Mr. Obama. Its all over the blogs and right wing radio. Millions upon millions of people are learning that there “could possibly be fire” under this smoke. No one in his right mind would bother taking such a risk, especially so close to the election when this thing can be put to rest in 10 minutes at a cost of 10 dollars! It seems improbable that a politician would risk a campaign to a rumor!
October 26, 2008 at 2:29 pm
JAMES
Koyaan: I just saw your post about “open discussion”. I have been visciously attacked on numerous sites, labelled as a racist for the mere idea of attempting to ask a question. That is why I started this blog with the intent of having open discussions that gives both sides, without the attacks to one’s person.
I have been the first to admit when I am wrong, or to consider another view.
So for your comment, I thank you.
As far as Obama addressing this issue in court 10 years ago, I’d like to see citations to that as well.
As far as Indonesia and citizenship goes, it is my opinion that based on the laws of Indonesia at the time, and ours, this would be a constitutional question that would need to be addressed post haste!!
October 26, 2008 at 2:37 pm
EFW
I Just got on both sites! I am beliving there just may be something! Is Philip Berg away of these 2 sites?
October 26, 2008 at 3:11 pm
koyaan
Jr. wrote:
koyaan, you stated that the date is not on the pdf on Berg’s link.
Actually what I said was that I saw no date/time stamp on the bottoms of the pages.
Look at page 10 and several others pages on that link. The pages have been cut at the bottom. The page number on the lower right proves that. On page 10 you’ll see “page 10″ with a slight cut on the bottom that deletes the rest of the fonts. You can use any picture software to find out that cut extends all the way to the right where you see a couple of dots and the rest deleted under it. Even drawing a straight line proves it. On this pic, the time/date fonts are actually lower than the page number fonts and shows why they were cut mush more. You can actually copy the time/date fonts from here, shrink them, and it actually is a 90% fix to those dots. Especially after “OCT”. Try it yourself.
Ok, I do see portions of “OCT” at the TOP of the pages in Berg’s pdf.
But the way pages are separated in the pdf, it’s not clear whether the time/date stamp was originally at the tops of pages or at the bottoms of pages.
I think what we’re really seeing here is simply the consequences of multiple FAXing.
I can’t recall ever receiving a FAX which had the header information at the bottom of the page.
And on both the pdf at Berg’s site as well as the image posted here, Surrick’s header information is the header information closest to the actual information on the page.
So it looks like the pdf on Berg’s site was FAXed by Surrick to someone other than Berg, and then someone other than Berg FAXed it to Berg.
On the image posted here, it looks like it was FAXed by Surrick to Berg, then from Berg to someone else (since Berg’s header appears directly above Surrick’s header) and then from this someone else to yet someone else.
k
October 26, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Barack Hussein Obama Is He Eligible or Not-Followup Three « WorldViewPoints
[…] And More… <!– /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:””; margin:0pt; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:”Times New Roman”; mso-fareast-font-family:”Times New Roman”;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} –> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:”Table Normal”; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:””; mso-padding-alt:0pt 5.4pt 0pt 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0pt; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:”Times New Roman”; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} https://james4america.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/judge-surrick […]
October 26, 2008 at 3:30 pm
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
Ann Dunham married an Indonesian and moved there. The only way for her son to attend school there was to be a citizen of Indonesia. I have no clue who Judah Benjamin is that you are referring to.
“Judah Benjamin” (I use quotes because the person is anonymous and uses a pseudonym) is the primary source for all this Indonesian citizenship stuff and whose posts on TexasDarlin blog Phil Berg drew upon when cobbling together his lawsuit.
Go over to TexasDarlin and read his various articles. I believe they’re all still archived there.
No shred of evidence that he travelled to Pakistan? On an Indonesian passport. Research the era that Obama himself said he went to Pakistan.
I said there’s not a shred of evidence that he went to Pakistan using an Indonesian passport, not that he never went to Pakistan. As you say, Obama himself said he went to Pakistan.
He would not have been permitted access with a US passport, mor would the US have allowed it, having a travel ban to Pakistan at the time.
Again, that is a myth. The US had no travel ban to Pakistan at the time. Trust me, I’ve been looking into that claim for a couple of months and there’s simply nothing to support it. However if you can find something, I’ll be more than happy to take a look at it.
I suspect that this got started when someone came under the mistaken impression that a State Department Travel Alert or Travel Warning meant that US citizens could not travel to a country for which a Travel Alert or Travel Warning had been issued.
As I said previously, Travel Alerts and Travel Warnings are informational only. They have absolutely nothing to do with prohibiting travel by US citizens.
Even flying from US to Indonesia on US Passport would have required an Indonesian passport for any travel into Pakistan.
Again, this is simply incorrect.
k
October 26, 2008 at 3:34 pm
koyaan
Bob wrote:
koyaan, do you realize that this is severe and unacceptable publicity for Mr. Obama. Its all over the blogs and right wing radio. Millions upon millions of people are learning that there “could possibly be fire” under this smoke.
Well, the way I look at it, that’s something for the Obama campaign to worry about, not me.
k
October 26, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Tropical Fats
Why won’t Barack Obama prove everything I want proved, to my satisfaction?
I demand answers! Or I will band together with a bunch of other tinfoil haberdashers and type very angry blog comments!
People, you’re all wayyyyyyy deep in the crazy. Consider the possibility that you’re undermedicated, and seek medical attention.
October 26, 2008 at 3:53 pm
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
Koyaan: I just saw your post about “open discussion”. I have been visciously attacked on numerous sites, labelled as a racist for the mere idea of attempting to ask a question.
I know exactly what you mean.
It just goes to show that there’s plenty of intolerance on both sides of the political spectrum.
That is why I started this blog with the intent of having open discussions that gives both sides, without the attacks to one’s person.
And you’re to be commended for that.
So for your comment, I thank you.
You’re quite welcome.
As far as Obama addressing this issue in court 10 years ago, I’d like to see citations to that as well.
Yeah. Though often people will post and never return so we may be waiting for a while. 😉
As far as Indonesia and citizenship goes, it is my opinion that based on the laws of Indonesia at the time, and ours, this would be a constitutional question that would need to be addressed post haste!!
I’d quoted the US law in a previous post. And it’s unambiguous. Obama could not have lost his US citizenship even if he had become a naturalized citizen of Indonesia.
Again, the notion that he did has been based on an incomplete reading of the law, both by “Judah Benjamin” and Phil Berg (who got the idea from “Judah Benjamin”).
If you’d like, shoot me an EMail and I’ll send you a pdf copy of the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act and you can verify it for yourself.
k
October 26, 2008 at 3:54 pm
blogdog
This is proof of the massive conspiracy to elect mr Obama; it is massive; I fear 25 million Americans will vote for him and join the conspiracy; how are we going to prosecute this many people?
I think we need to get the Republicans to take over CIA, NSA, FBI and start to get the truth out; oops, I forgot. They already control them.
Never mind
October 26, 2008 at 3:59 pm
mrje
J.A.M.E.S.
kuddo’s.
October 26, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Jr.
koyaan, I wasn’t talking about the “OCT” on top of the page. The date stamp on top of the page does not match the dots on the lower right corner anywhere that has been cut off. The fact is the lower date stamp is in Berg’s pdf file that he received.
You state that perhaps the judge faxed it to someone else then that person sent it to Berg. I would question very much why the plaintiff and defendant would not be the first to be contacted with the dismissal.
October 26, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Lori G.
It’s time to just get over it. Obama is the Anti-Christ and it will just play out like in the Left Behind Series
October 26, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Jimbo
I found this web site of Obama’s life story to be very informative. It lists over 300 references. Recomend everyone read it.
http://colony14.net/id41.html
October 26, 2008 at 4:19 pm
koyaan
Jr. wrote:
koyaan, I wasn’t talking about the “OCT” on top of the page. The date stamp on top of the page does not match the dots on the lower right corner anywhere that has been cut off. The fact is the lower date stamp is in Berg’s pdf file that he received.
Ok, I just noticed some weirdness when viewing the pdf in Acrobat Reader 9.
When I was paging UP (i.e. from a higher page number to a lower page number), I noticed on some pages that there was some text that would appear and then almost instantly disappear.
Weird.
Let me save the file from Berg’s site and then open it up in COREL and see how things look.
In the meantime, what version of Acrobat are you using?
k
October 26, 2008 at 4:20 pm
mrje
Don’t give up…
Don’t EVER give up…
October 26, 2008 at 4:22 pm
mrje
I’m telling you computer geeks now.. WORK YOUR MAGIC… because if there is anything incriminating (against BO), it will disappear.
JAMES!
PRINT WHAT YOU HAVE NOW!
October 26, 2008 at 4:24 pm
mrje
Remember SNL (Soros) had the power to delete that skit from the internet… I don’t doubt they have the power to change the docs j.a.m.e.s. has now.
Of course, I have NO knowledge how this happens.
October 26, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Get ready...Read this! - Page 6 - OKCTalk
[…] Get ready…Read this! Shocking. Judge Surrick “Received” the Decision He Issued Just Americans Making Ethical Statements… __________________ […]
October 26, 2008 at 4:30 pm
courtier
This smells really bad – Obama refuses to release the very documents needed to establish his eligibility – and a federal judge says the law is that NO ONE has standing to do a damn thing about it? WTF is this country coming to??
October 26, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Antonio
Keep this alive.
October 26, 2008 at 4:40 pm
courtier
This smells really bad – Obama refuses to release the very documents needed to establish his eligibility – and a federal judge says the law is that NO ONE has standing to do a damn thing about it? WTF is this country coming to?? Plus, the judge’s words (Obama was “vetted” more than any other, etc.) are words of a partisan, not a neutral. That stuck out immediately. What a coward.
October 26, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Nick
Somehow I doubt that the judge was issued a made-to-order ruling for him to sign off on. However, you should point this out to Phil Berg and let him decide what he wants to do with it.
October 26, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Interested Bystander
koyaan,
First let me write that you are most welcome here. As one of the first people to post at JAMES long ago (wasn’t that in the 60’s JAMES? lol), I have been a faithful contributor here from the first thread that was posted.
JAMES is a great place for knowledge without the name calling and everything else that goes along with that back and forth. It does not further the discussion.
koyaan, thank you for the information. Especially about not losing citizenship if you relocate back to the US before your 25th birthday. This is something that I was not aware of.
Here is my problem with this though: If Anne married Lolo, and took Obama to Indonesia, and admitted him in to a school that you had to have Indonesian citizenship, and if the US did not recognize duel citizenship where the other country did not recognize it, then how could Obama have kept his US citizenship? You do not lose it, and then all of a sudden get it back can you? Now if he went to England, then I could see this, because England acknowledges duel citizenship. Obama went to Indonesia, so I would argue that what you posted about the 25th birthday thing would be a moot point, because Obama wasn’t a “duel citizen” once he was admitted in to the Indonesian School he attended.
As far as the alerts and warnings of travel argument, would the US government still issue a passport for someone to travel to an “alert” or “warning” country? You seem to know more about this than I do.
Also, someone posted on another blog that Obama wrote in one of his books that he traveled to Pakistan under his Indonesian passport. Again, IF he went under an Indonesian passport, and Indonesia doesn’t acknowldge duel citizenship, and the US only acknowledges duel citizenship IF the other country does, does this not mean that Obama renounced his US citizenship at this time?
I guess to break this down to it’s simplist form, IF Obama became an Indonesian citizen when he was adopted by Lolo, then by default would he not have renounced his US citizenship? If that is the case, then how could the US force our citizenship upon a person who renounced it?
My understanding is that the law in Kenya states that if you do not acknowledge your Kenyan citizenship by the age of 18, then it “expires”. Indonesia is not the same. Your citizenship does not “expire” unless you renounce it.
Does the law state anything about duel citizens being President? If it does not, then I think this needs to be addressed ASAP, because I do not want a duel citizen holding the Office. Seems that a duel citizen would not be holding the best interest of our country in mind, especially when having an issue with the other country that you are a citizen of.
koyaan wrote,
“What entity with any lawful authority regarding the election of the President of the United States as it relates to Article II of the Constitution of the United Stats has requested proof that he is eligible?
None that I’m aware of.”
How about a concerned citizen of the United States of America? Don’t we have the right, as the employer to ask these questions of an employee?
And my understanding is that McCain DID submit his papers as discovery in his proceedings. Of course I wasn’t there (as this happened in 2000, if I’m not mistaken), and I wasn’t even aware of this litigation until this year.
The biggest difference between McCain’s and Obama’s cases are that McCain was born to parents that were both US citizens. Obama wasn’t.
As far as no one coming forward who can dispute that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii, what about Obama’s grandmother in Kenya stating that she was in the delivery room when he was born, and held him shortly after birth? Is that not someone coming forward?
Pope,
We have no problem with there being a “black” president, as long as that person is eligible to hold that office, and that person wins an election.
But please keep throwing that race card thing out there. That’s the last resort for folks who do not have legitimate arguments.
October 26, 2008 at 5:12 pm
JAMES
IB: Thanks for the support, and YES, it does seem like it was in the 60’s….. isn’t that when this election process started.
I am gearing up to begin the vetting process for 2012 staring November 6th……. we all need a day off!!
October 26, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Rebel Without a Sauce
He’s as Surrick as sugar!
Ha!
……
…I’m going to go lie down. 😦
October 26, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Interested Bystander
JAMES,
This has been the weirdest election cycle I have ever been around for. I have been voting since 1980, and I have not seen the bias of the MSM that has been shown in this election. Or a state only being able to seat half of their delegates at the convention (I know this was overturned just before the convention, and Michigan and Florida were allowed to seat all of their delegates). Or the voter fraud being suggested by BOTH sides. Or any number of other issues that have arisen.
Why would someone even want to run for an office, and submit themselves to this?
Even the candidates have admitted they have been on the “trail” since Feb of 2006. Man that seems like a decade ago.
And the money being spent. One Billion dollars is what I hear Obama will have spent to become the President. That’s three bucks for every citizen of the US. Amazing to me.
Now there are stories about an alleged affair Obama had with an “aid” that was on his “financial” staff, and was relocated to the Carribean after Michelle found out about it.
Have you seen anything on this?
October 26, 2008 at 5:35 pm
mrje
Interested Bystander
It is my experience (living in Asia), that depending upon the incentive (to the government and/or individual represented at the time), documents CAN be authenticated.
EASILY during the time BO came/born unto??? USA…
regardless, someone kept the authentic documents.. it is natural security for those who gave/sold it. ….
This information is more valuable NOW than they will be in 2012. … and they know it.
There is NO DOUBT they will surface… but in whose hands?
October 26, 2008 at 5:51 pm
JAMES
Vivian Baker I think is the name of Obama’s aide living comfortably in the Caribbean. Story has swirled for a few weeks. She was probably the recipient of the Tiffany’s gift bought on the Obama campaign credit cards.
October 26, 2008 at 6:00 pm
JAMES
The Indonesian constitution would have permitted Obama to become an Indonesian citizen as Lolo Soetoro’s son, his son by adoption or legally acknowledging him, as he did on the school registration form.
October 26, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Nicholas
I have a feeling, no matter the truth, Obama and his Team will find a way to get passed every road block in their way. They have more money than any campaign in history (still a fishy story) and are sneakier than the Clinton’s.
This guy, if he wins the election, will win it by cheating and memorizing a nation of sheep that don’t want to think for themselves when they have The One to do it for them.
I love the U.S. but an Island elsewhere is becoming more and more appealing.
October 26, 2008 at 6:58 pm
koyaan
Interested Bystander wrote:
First let me write that you are most welcome here. As one of the first people to post at JAMES long ago (wasn’t that in the 60’s JAMES? lol), I have been a faithful contributor here from the first thread that was posted.
Thank you!
It’s like a breath of fresh air here.
JAMES is a great place for knowledge without the name calling and everything else that goes along with that back and forth. It does not further the discussion.
Couldn’t agree with you more.
And with that in mind, let’s see if we can further this discussion. 😉
koyaan, thank you for the information. Especially about not losing citizenship if you relocate back to the US before your 25th birthday. This is something that I was not aware of.
You’re welcome.
You weren’t aware of it because the person who got the whole Indonesian citizenship thing started (“Judah Benjamin”) didn’t want others to be aware of it.
I can say this with some certainty because anyone who actually read the statute simply couldn’t miss that proviso. It was all part of the same paragraph.
Here is my problem with this though: If Anne married Lolo, and took Obama to Indonesia, and admitted him in to a school that you had to have Indonesian citizenship, and if the US did not recognize duel citizenship where the other country did not recognize it, then how could Obama have kept his US citizenship?
In the statute (i.e. the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act), dual citizenship is implicit.
By that I mean, it says that Obama would not lose his US citizenship even if he were a naturalized citizen of another country.
As for any Indonesian laws not recognizing dual citizenship, well, that would be Indonesia’s problem. Just because Indonesian law didn’t recognize dual citizenship (if indeed that was the case), it doesn’t change US law and who the US considers to be a US citizen.
Obama went to Indonesia, so I would argue that what you posted about the 25th birthday thing would be a moot point, because Obama wasn’t a “duel citizen” once he was admitted in to the Indonesian School he attended.
It’s not a moot point because one’s US citizenship isn’t dependent upon the laws of some other country, but on US law.
As far as the alerts and warnings of travel argument, would the US government still issue a passport for someone to travel to an “alert” or “warning” country? You seem to know more about this than I do.
Yes. Again, the alerts and warnings are just informational in nature, they don’t prohibit travel.
For example, there’s currently a Travel Alert for Mexico. But the US isn’t prohibiting US citizens from traveling to Mexico.
Also, someone posted on another blog that Obama wrote in one of his books that he traveled to Pakistan under his Indonesian passport.
I seem to recall seeing that claim but don’t recall anyone citing which page of which book he supposedly wrote it. For that matter, I haven’t even seen anything claimed to be a quote from the book.
Again, IF he went under an Indonesian passport, and Indonesia doesn’t acknowldge duel citizenship, and the US only acknowledges duel citizenship IF the other country does, does this not mean that Obama renounced his US citizenship at this time?
No. One has to make a formal declaration renouncing their citizenship. It’s not something that happens by virtue of passports and geography.
My understanding is that the law in Kenya states that if you do not acknowledge your Kenyan citizenship by the age of 18, then it “expires”. Indonesia is not the same. Your citizenship does not “expire” unless you renounce it.
Well, if we go back to what I said previously, if at the time Obama went to Indonesia as a child, and Indonesia didn’t recognize dual citizenship, then he never could have had legitimate Indonesian citizenship in the first place.
Does the law state anything about duel citizens being President?
No.
All the Constitution says is “natural born citizen.” The statutory “standard” for that has essentially been what US law defines as a “citizen by birth.”
In other words, someone born on US soil, or born abroad to citizen parents.
If it does not, then I think this needs to be addressed ASAP, because I do not want a duel citizen holding the Office.
You’d have to take that up with Congress.
Seems that a duel citizen would not be holding the best interest of our country in mind, especially when having an issue with the other country that you are a citizen of.
Understandable.
“What entity with any lawful authority regarding the election of the President of the United States as it relates to Article II of the Constitution of the United Stats has requested proof that he is eligible?
None that I’m aware of.”
How about a concerned citizen of the United States of America? Don’t we have the right, as the employer to ask these questions of an employee?
Well, you can ask, but you’re not necessarily entitled to an answer. 😉
It may come as a surprise to some, but “we the people” have no direct constitutional role nor any rights under the constitution when it comes to the election of the President of the United States.
I’ll just leave it at that for the moment and let you and others mull that over for a bit. 😉
And my understanding is that McCain DID submit his papers as discovery in his proceedings.
That’s incorrect for two reasons.
First, both cases were tossed out due to lack of standing before any discovery could have ever taken place.
Second, there was no discovery. There was never any question as to where McCain was born. That was a given. At issue was whether he was considered a “natural born citizen” as per US laws on the books at the time.
Of course I wasn’t there (as this happened in 2000, if I’m not mistaken), and I wasn’t even aware of this litigation until this year.
Both cases (Robinson v. Bowen and Hollander v. McCain) happened in 2008. 😉
The biggest difference between McCain’s and Obama’s cases are that McCain was born to parents that were both US citizens. Obama wasn’t.
Which of course would only be relevant if Obama were born in Kenya.
As far as no one coming forward who can dispute that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii, what about Obama’s grandmother in Kenya stating that she was in the delivery room when he was born, and held him shortly after birth? Is that not someone coming forward?
I’ve never been able to trace that back to any verifiable source.
It seems to be yet another instance of someone just making an unsubstantiated claim and it taking on a life of its own.
k
October 26, 2008 at 7:06 pm
koyaan
Interested Bystander wrote:
Why would someone even want to run for an office, and submit themselves to this?
The answer to that question is precisely why I refuse to vote for anyone actually wanting to run for President. 😉
k
October 26, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Nicholas
If he is in fact all legit, why did Obama’s camp not just prove it? Why wouldn’t the media use this to SUPPORT Obama? If this is all wrong and he’s legal, I’d run this story against McCain. But Obama and the media make no mention? Since none of are judges, we can’t have final word, but I smell a stinky fish that will elect Obama President and no one will care how he did it.
October 26, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Kevin
“I smell a stinky fish that will elect Obama President and no one will care how he did it.”
And even worse, if it comes out after that he isn’t eligible, they’ll just create some bogus reason to allow him to remain President. Then, for all intents and purposes, consider the Constitution null and void.
October 26, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Ray
Did Obama go to Hawaii to visit his ailing grandmother to “coach her” in this matter?
October 26, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Phil Z.
There is existing software that college professors and others use to spot plagarism and paraphrasing the works of others. If the judge’s former law clerk wrote this opinion, it will match his prior writings in many parameters just as it will if the judge himself wrote the opinion. It would even be possible to tell if his present law clerk did the opinion as there are telltale similarities in the writing styles of different individuals. The truth will out, but hopefully before our democracy gets hijacked on November 4th.
October 26, 2008 at 10:03 pm
koyaan
Phil Z. wrote:
The truth will out, but hopefully before our democracy gets hijacked on November 4th.
Um… the Presidential election is on December 15th.
k
October 26, 2008 at 10:24 pm
redsoxmaniac
The sad part is is that you people scare ten times as much as McCain. Someone above me even referred to a “Civil War” which Obama would like.
Where does it say anywhere that Obama wants a war? The only thing he has done is spouted what he wants to do for the country, which could be good or bad.
Currently, he is not in office, and our stock market has plunged 40%. Unemployment is high, and I have family fighting in two countries.
My concern is that none of you are looking at your current situation, or at least looking to a better future because people in the end make the difference.
Obama isn’t going to do anything. It is up to Americans to do it themselves. That is the republican motto, and now all of a sudden you decide to shake in your boots?
Please, real Americans do for themselves. Obama will do no worse than Bush. If you think a Civil War is going to happen its because you want it to happen. It scares me that someone would think that a political official wants death.
I am more scared of people on this website. I do hope that when McCain or Obama gets elected, be happy/sad, but get your lives together, get a heart, and use it for good.
Fear mongering brings out terrorism, and is unpatriotic. Grow up.
October 26, 2008 at 10:27 pm
bongoman
Koyann is the only level-headed person here it seems.
His/her logical precision is to be commended in the face of the many paranoid and gullible commentors on this thread.
Thank you for your calm-headed, rational investigation and research.
October 26, 2008 at 11:37 pm
chuckles199
obama is the ‘manchurian candidate’ any doubt before, this puts it to rest.
sideley austin is an extremist radical chicago law firm with connections to convicts and indicted felons.
they have had obama, michelle and bernardine (OHRNSTEIN) dohrn on staff.
October 27, 2008 at 2:24 am
braveman7
Is questioning the oppression of men by toxic feminist persuasion ethical ? Or the suggestion of a new moral philosophy for men to consider apply and benefit from, under the increasing oppression of men by toxic feminism?
http://www.SacredWarrior.org
October 27, 2008 at 4:54 am
Brian E.
Click to access 045_Obama,%20Judge%20Surrick%20Ruling%2010%2024%202008.pdf
Set your Adobe Reader to 400% or 800%. Scroll a couple of inches to the right. Watch CLOSELY! as you page down past the bottom of each page. A fax date and time appears for a split second before disappearing.
This almost illegible line at the bottom is from the originating fax. Pages 1 and 2 of the original fax are missing, so we only have pages 3/36 (04:56P) through 36/36 (05:10P). As resent from the fax in Judge Surrick’s office, these are redesignated pages 1/34 (18:10) through 34/34 (18:16).
The fax to the Judge’s Philadelphia chambers (EST) could well have been sent from a CST location. This is borne out by the retransmission beginning at 18:10 (EST), when the original completed at 05:10pm – possibly CST.
But in the absence of a time zone marking, that is the most flimsy of circumstantial evidence. It could have been sent from across town one hour earlier. However, if one of Judge Surrick’s clerks had faxed it, it seems unlikely that his or her fax machine would be programmed to omit the required ID of origin in the middle, between the date & time and the page number.
October 27, 2008 at 5:48 am
Jr.
koyaan,
just to add, several sources are saying the fax came directly from the judge and no one else. But I don’t know if they’re quoting each other. One of Bergs helpers did mention that dismissal came directly from the judge but can no longer find that post. (they have several threads open and mostly filled with nuisance)
Also, I found out that several brands including some Cannons do print the date stamp on the bottom. Maybe as a switched option. I don’t know.
October 27, 2008 at 6:44 am
JAMES
RedSoxManiac: I am truly surprised that you would say that this conversation is in the line of fearmongering and unpatriotic. I do not believe a conversation about legal ethics is fearmongering. Breeding terrorism?
Get a heart? Use it for good? This is excellent advice, and I offer it in full to every pro-Obama blog site that has spent their precious time in attacks against anyone who dared to not believe that Obama is “The One”.
An Obama presidency would be more pallable IF it was not in conjunction with Speaker Pelosi and Sen. Reid. Yes, everything that Obama wants may not come to pass as it needs legislative support, but he will have it with those two. And lets be realistic, the Dems have yet to take responsibility for their role in this mortgage debacle.
Yes, we as Americans always have picked ourselves up. But we have a leader who believes we are inherently “bad”, and need to become “good” again. That’s great morale building!
You have family serving overseas. Many of us have family or friends doing such. Those who had family there when Obama visited were very disappointed in his demeanor with the troops. I thank everyone who serves in our armed forces!
October 27, 2008 at 7:49 am
Obama Birth Certificate: Obama Birth Certificate Sealed by State of Hawaii | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
[…] Addressing the Rumors Surrounding Surrick’s Decision: The newest thing, I see, is that the Hon. R. Barclay Surrick somehow was implored to decide as he did in the Berg v. Obama suit, that the memorandum and order was somehow thrust upon him by a former law clerk who now works […]
October 27, 2008 at 8:00 am
Phil Z.
After sitting on the case for over two months, Judge Surrick tossed it on grounds that were there from Day One, namely standing. Was this a delaying tactic?
Now, it moves to the SCOTUS where it will hopefully be weighed on its merits. Since it involves provisions of the U.S. Constitution, the case has now reached its proper venue.
My only concern is that the justices might be a little gun-shy after all the criticism that was leveled against them in the 2000 election. They were right as the repeated recounts showed that Bush had won, but the MSM will be screaming like banshees if their candidate is rightfully taken off the ballot through disqualification.
These are interesting time we live in, as the saying goes.
October 27, 2008 at 8:27 am
koyaan
Ray wrote:
Did Obama go to Hawaii to visit his ailing grandmother to “coach her” in this matter?
Coach her for what purpose? Is she planning to go on Hannity & Colmes or something?
k
October 27, 2008 at 8:42 am
outsider222
RedSoxMainiac:
AMEN!
LOL….I had no idea just how many psychos were out there.
October 27, 2008 at 8:45 am
notedscholar
this has nothing to do with ethics?
October 27, 2008 at 8:57 am
pandego
IS A JOKE???
October 27, 2008 at 9:25 am
Ed Darrell
Absolutely no indication of any problem here — why wouldn’t pages be faxed into the chambers from any number of sources? (another office in the court, a document assembler, one of the law offices of one of the litigants — in civil suits, parties write proposed language for the decision which the judge may use verbatim).
It just sounds to me as if you have a lot of sour grapes, and that you aren’t much familiar with the way civil litigation goes.
It’s an odd case, a nuisance suit, with a lot of information contrary to the plaintiff’s claims. This is the correct decision on the merits of the case (for the sake of the case, the judge assumed that the allegations of the plaintiff were correct — the law was not with the plaintiff).
But you’re running a great interference game. While you’re diddling around here with issues of no consquence, Obama’s getting his voters out to the polls.
Keep up the good work.
October 27, 2008 at 9:27 am
ds55
Take all this pent-up anger, buy a bumper sticker that says “He’s not MY President!”. Stick it on your rust bucket for the next 8 years and suck it up. Get over it. Live with it, like the rest of us had to do when Bush took office.
Just because your team is losing, don’t demonize the team that’s winning. It makes you look ignorant, paranoid and a very poor sport.
October 27, 2008 at 9:32 am
Federal judge dismissed the challenge to Obama’s birth certificate « Millard Fillmore’s Bathtub
[…] Here’s an example of how lunatic this issue is, and how bizarre are the arguments. This blog argues that Judge Surrick had the decision dictated to him from someone else in the Obama camp — the same lunatic argument creationists made against the […]
October 27, 2008 at 9:37 am
JAMES
There are no “sour grapes” as some comments have stated. I believe that the cornerstone of our freedom of speech is to exchange opinions and ideas, hopefully in a civil manner. Sen. Obama is not the President as of yet, and should he happen to be elected, I will begin preparing for 2012.
After all, that is the premise of a democratic society. We can all voice our thoughts on the administrations in power, positive and negative, only if we have exercised our right to vote.
I do not believe that open discourse should be viewed as demonizing the side that is ahead.
October 27, 2008 at 9:49 am
Pat
I don’t like it any better than you folks…but maybe Surrick finished his ruling while at his house and faxed it to the court house from his own fax. It may have sat there for an hour before his clerks forwarded it. Just as probable as your theory.
October 27, 2008 at 10:01 am
JAMES
Pat- that is just as viable an answer as well. It would not be the first time that all of the other coincidental events were just that. On the other hand, having been on the receiving end of blatant attacks because I simply asked questions about Obama, I have seen what can be done. Time will tell.
October 27, 2008 at 10:15 am
More on the Obama Birth Certificate « The Valley Truth
[…] there is more fuel for the fire. The J.A.M.E.S. blog reports that the decsion by Judge R. Barclay Surrick, dismissing Philip Berg’s case in which […]
October 27, 2008 at 10:29 am
JAMES
koyaan: I have seen in several places that Hawaii Gov. Lingle has “sealed” Obama’s birth certificate. If this were so, what justification would there be for such an action. After all, by Hawaiian law, it is only available to family.
Sen. McCain produced his original birth certificate.
I am baffled by the possible reasoning for NOT producing the original document.
October 27, 2008 at 10:46 am
koyaan
Jr. wrote:
just to add, several sources are saying the fax came directly from the judge and no one else. But I don’t know if they’re quoting each other. One of Bergs helpers did mention that dismissal came directly from the judge but can no longer find that post. (they have several threads open and mostly filled with nuisance)
Also, I found out that several brands including some Cannons do print the date stamp on the bottom. Maybe as a switched option. I don’t know.
Thanks, Jr.!
There just doesn’t seem to be any clear evidence to support the claim that Surrick was “provided” the decision.
As I said previously, I have the scanned decision from the court, and it’s definitely not a scan of a FAX.
You can see for yourself:
Berg Dismissed
Before downloading it, be aware it’s rather large (a bit over 9MB).
k
October 27, 2008 at 10:50 am
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
On the other hand, having been on the receiving end of blatant attacks because I simply asked questions about Obama, I have seen what can be done.
And I have been on the receiving end of equally blatant attacks (as well as banning) because I have simply questioned some of the claims made about the certificate and Berg’s case.
Go figure. 😉
k
October 27, 2008 at 10:57 am
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
koyaan: I have seen in several places that Hawaii Gov. Lingle has “sealed” Obama’s birth certificate. If this were so, what justification would there be for such an action. After all, by Hawaiian law, it is only available to family.
My guess would be to prevent some employee from accessing it and providing it to someone who wasn’t authorized.
Sen. McCain produced his original birth certificate.
So?
I am baffled by the possible reasoning for NOT producing the original document.
And I’m baffled by the reasoning for producing the original document.
The information on the short form certification of birth is taken from the original document. So if the place of birth on the short form says Hawaii, then that’s what it said on the original.
k
October 27, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Bob
koyaan –
“And I’m baffled by the reasoning for producing the original document”
obamabot?
October 27, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Lou A
The constitution says: Article II
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
Therefore if the people of that day in 1776 were of foreign birth they would have been eligible to become president as long as they were a 14 year resident in the USA.
Mr. Obama is well educated (in USA) and is capable of screwing up this nation just as good as any of the other idiots.
October 27, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Bob X
[JAMES]Ann Dunham married an Indonesian and moved there. The only way for her son to attend school there was to be a citizen of Indonesia.
This is false. I am no expert in Indonesian law, but the Indonesian statute as cited BY BERG HIMSELF (who does not, apparently, read any of his own stuff very carefully) says the opposite: that to be a “state child” entitled to attend the public schools one may be EITHER a citizen of Indonesia OR a child of a foreign wife of an Indonesian citizen, provided the father adopts him (Obama was enrolled under the latter provision).
And one more time: the United States does not permit its citizenship to be affected by unilateral actions of other countries. Joe Lieberman is, under Israeli law, a citizen of Israel simply because he is Jewish and has set foot there; this does not affect American citizenship in any way. The only way to lose American citizenship is to actively renounce it.
[courtier] a federal judge says the law is that NO ONE has standing to do a damn thing about it?
It is the Joint Session of Congress which has the sole authority under the constitution to decide which electoral votes for President are valid. Courts refrain, under “separation of powers” doctrine, from questions which are committed to another branch. The interpretation of the phrase “natural born citizen” is up to the Joint Session and not up to the courts. The Senate has already resolved that the phrase does cover McCain; if the House agrees (or, simply, receives electoral votes for him without contest) that is conclusive.
It is the same in the case of Obama. If any of you really think there is a genuine issue here, write to your Representative and Senator (the procedural rule is that a contest of the validity of any electoral votes requires only one Representative and one Senator to force an investigation of the matter).
[Nick]Somehow I doubt that the judge was issued a made-to-order ruling for him to sign off on.
It is absolutely routine for the judges to be sent made-to-order rulings, by both sides. Berg’s proposed ruling has also been posted (by people under the hilarious misimpression the judge signed it). There would be nothing at all unusual in this case if the ruling proposed by the winning side was signed by the judge exactly as he received it: only in cases where neither side’s proposed order is acceptable will the judge trouble to write the text of the order himself.
October 27, 2008 at 2:03 pm
pennyb22
great WP blog ..cheers
October 27, 2008 at 2:07 pm
koyaan
Bob wrote:
koyaan –
“And I’m baffled by the reasoning for producing the original document”
obamabot?
The only bots I’ve seen are those who, in lieu of any sort of intelligent argument or discussion, are only capable of uttering one word retorts like “obamabot.”
k
October 27, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Roselani
I don’t understand why there’s such doubt about the birth certificate that’s been posted and examined by third parties. Why is THIS document unacceptable? My husband has a Kapiolani Hospital birth certificate but learned when he got a passport that this was not acceptable, and he had to get an official green one, just like Obama’s.
I’ve also seen clippings of the listing of Obama’s birth in the newspaper, under the heading “Bureau of Vital Statistics.” Critics have dismissed that as bogus, saying that people can submit that information to the health department. When I had a job collecting that data from the health department, I can assure you it all came from hospitals, not from submissions by a parent or grandparent.
As far as I can tell, the evidence weighs in favor of the Obama claim of U.S. birth. It seems irrational to concoct scenarios that run counter to the weight of evidence at hand.
If Obama were born in Kenya, why hasn’t anyone produced the record from that hospital? As far as I’m concerned, Obama’s made his case.
I’m guessing McCain doesn’t want to file a legal challenge (I believe he WOULD have legal standing) because he believes the evidence at hand and doesn’t want to look foolish. Also, Obama and Clinton were co-sponsors of Senate Resolution 511, passed in May, which made it clear that McCain is a natural-born citizen, regardless of all the Internet rumor-mongering at the time. For him to make an issue of this, given the weight of evidence, would make him look pretty small.
October 27, 2008 at 6:08 pm
erogue1
Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but to Koyaan’s original comment way above claiming the original PDF accessible on Berg’s site does not show the time stamps at the bottom left: this is not true.
I retrieved the file, and am viewing it with the latest Adobe PDF reader (v.9.0.0). Strangely, the marks are not apparent. However, when scrolling, as the PDF file is being redrawn, the marks become momentarily but distinctly and definitely visible. It is not a computer graphical display artifact – it is the time stamp as described in Jame’s article here. It would appear that the PDF conversion process somehow did not accurately record the time stamps at the lower left. The original theory, of the judge being sent the decision from “outside,” appears to have not lost merit in this regard.
October 27, 2008 at 6:23 pm
PATRICIA
Roselani
October 27, 2008 at 2:50 pm
****************
That’s not a birth certificate it a certificate of live birth…………..
It doesn’t state his place of birth or what hospital or what country he was born in.
That would be what John McCain showed, his birth certificate.
Hawaii has a late registration time, that’s what the COLB represents , a registration of birth not a birth certificate.
The birth certificate is not important anyway, I don’t know way so many people get this confused.
His Indonesian citizenship trumps all this anyway.
October 27, 2008 at 6:39 pm
TruthTeller
LOL!
MEMO to all you dumb Republicraps- We on the left only have to keep the lid on this for EIGHT MORE DAYS, then you will NEVER, NEVER be able to uncover the real truth.
Lord Obama will be in total control– Control of the Senate, the House, the Presidency, then, after a few months, the Supreme Court as well!
Your Time is over. Hail Obama!
October 27, 2008 at 6:47 pm
TruthTeller
WHAT CURRENT EVENT DOES THIS REMIND YOU OF:
From “DEATH BLOW TO DEMOCRACY”
By GARETH JONES, circa 1933
The Brown Shirts are now masters of Germany.
Their leader, Adolf Hitler, commands among millions of people a feeling which can only be described as that of religious worship. I have for my leader;” said one leading Nazi to me, “a love which is as deep as my love for my country, and I have in him a faith than which no faith, even faith in religion, could be deeper. Hitler can never be wrong, and his orders I shall carry out to the death.” Eager crowds line the streets for each parade and, stretching out their right hands, call with ecstatic enthusiasm, “Heil, Hitler!”
What have the Brown Shirts done since Hitler became Chancellor on January 30?
They have dealt a deathblow to democracy in Germany, and have made Parliament into a despised relic of the past.
They have put one party, and one party only, into control.
The Nazis have put themselves into the position of leaders in the universities, in all committees, in factories, on boards of directors, in schools, in public offices. Most positions of trust are now held by members of the party.
They have started a ruthless campaign against the Jews, whom they have deprived of rights, whom they have persecuted both economically and morally.
They have abolished two political parties, and have seized their funds, the private property of those parties.
They have imprisoned many tens of thousands of men and women for their political views, and hold them now captive in prisons and concentration camps.
They have swept away the liberty of the press, and they come down with a heavy hand upon any editor who dares criticise the leader or his policy.
They have created a secret police, which will make still more nebulous any freedom of expression which may remain.
AMERICA, YOU STILL HAVE A CHANCE TO SAY NO!
October 27, 2008 at 6:57 pm
JAMES
TruthTeller: Be careful what you wish for. With no “checks and balances” as our forefathers had so acutely wove into our Constitution, that control may come back to haunt you.
Seven of the nine Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republican administrations. Justice Stevens is the eldest of the nine, and most likely the first to be replaced. That still leaves six justices appointed by Republicans. Odds would be the remaining six would most likely attempt to stay on the Court if there was an Obama presidency with the House and Senate under Democratic control. Obviously if Justice Ginsberg or Breyer were to wish to retire, their replacement would be of their liberal view.
Unless an Obama presidency were to extend to a second term, or the Justices start to have poor health, Obama won’t be changing the face of the Court as quickly as you suggest. Justices are appointed for life. And recent history shows us they have a long life span.
For all who think that Obama will be in charge– think again– he is merely going to be the puppet of those who manipulated him into the position.
October 27, 2008 at 7:11 pm
koyaan
PATRICIA wrote:
That’s not a birth certificate it a certificate of live birth
It’s actually a certification of live birth.
It doesn’t state his place of birth or what hospital or what country he was born in.
It does indeed state his place of birth. That place being Honolulu, Hawaii.
Hawaii has a late registration time, that’s what the COLB represents , a registration of birth not a birth certificate.
That’s incorrect. The certification of live birth is a shorthand version of the certificate of birth and the information given on a certification of live birth is taken from the certificate of birth.
His Indonesian citizenship trumps all this anyway.
Sorry. Wrong again.
Any Indonesian citizenship he may have had did not affect his US citizenship.
k
October 27, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Roselani
Patricia,
I agree that the birth certificate question is moot, relative to the Berg lawsuit. But in any case, I don’t get the distinction being made between “birth certificate” and a “certificate of live birth.” The state of Hawaii doesn’t make such a distinction. This green document is the one you need for all practical purposes.
As for giving up his citizenship in Indonesia, I think koyaan’s posts detailing the applicable law addresses that. Obama would have had to give up his U.S. citizenship, actively; it doesn’t happen automatically, as a result of travel arrangements.
I don’t see any evidence presented that he gave it up.
October 27, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Roselani
For all who think that Obama will be in charge– think again– he is merely going to be the puppet of those who manipulated him into the position.
James, that’s true, to varying extents, for any president. But with all due respect, I think Obama’s been calling the shots with his policies to a greater extent than McCain.
I liked the John McCain who asserted himself BEFORE the primaries; since then, he’s been pressured to back away from several of his “maverick” positions.
I feel more concern about McCain being in charge of his own presidency than about Obama, judging by how the campaigns were conducted.
October 27, 2008 at 7:33 pm
rdsutherland
This smear campaign is absolutely revolting.
Anyone who actually believes this needs to have their head examined.
October 27, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Ames
Likely a law clerk wrote the opinion and faxed it to the judge to be signed. That’s how the federal judiciary rolls.
October 27, 2008 at 11:00 pm
discomidge
You all are pretty paranoid, delusional, and bordering on crazy. Wow.
Where were you people in 2000?
2004?
Oh, yeah. Your candidate “won.”
Funny what happens when a Democrat is actually up in the polls.
Funny what happens when you just listen to commercials and don’t do the math on health care and tax plans.
Funny what happens when people let their fear of an African-American get the best of them.
Damn.
Maybe when you actually get some verification from, say, interviews, sources, you know, REAL people making REAL comments — not just something typed up and purported to be true — you’ll be trusted.
Until then… good night!
: )
October 28, 2008 at 9:42 am
erogue1
A thought on the seeming double fax transmission. Couldnt the judge have simply sent his decision to the court from a remote location, and the court then sent it out?
October 28, 2008 at 10:22 am
JAMES
Discomidge:
Working on verification issues.
Afraid of an American who is black, absolutely not! Fearful of someone with, as Hillary said, “a speech he gave once” as experience, perhaps. Angry at a fawning media who misinformed, failed to investigate, and opted instead of reporting history to try and write- immensely so.
As far as 2000 and 2004, I was immersed in political discourse just as much. Al Gore actually had my vote in 2000. It has been noted by many of the pundits that Clinton and Gore were far more centrist than Obama has shown thus far.
I don’t ask for anyone to agree with my points or my views, but have a basis for yours as well, not just mere dismissiveness because I do not choose to support a radical liberalist. Yes, I cling to my God and my gun!
October 28, 2008 at 10:24 am
koyaan
By the way, it seems Steve Marquis’ lawsuit in Washington state was thrown out yesterday.
Judge Tosses Washington Lawsuit on Obama Citizenship
k
October 28, 2008 at 10:26 am
JAMES
Thanks koyaan, I had not seen the Washington story yet.
October 28, 2008 at 10:30 am
JAMES
Do you think the Seattle news could have spared a few more spaces or another line to give a simple reason, i.e. lacked standing?
October 28, 2008 at 10:42 am
discomidge
Cling to “your” God and “your” gun all you want. The reason Obama has a zero rating from the NRA is because he is against semi-automatic weapons and wants to limit purchases to one gun a month. (See http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm). Who needs more than one gun a month? Who needs a semi-automatic weapon? There is actually a pro-gun/pro-Obama faction out there: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_592242.html
Also, Ms. Palin may have a disagreement on what “your” God thinks. Careful what you wish for. She’s very pro-religion & government and actually thinks the Iraq conflict is “God’s plan.”
Obama is quite educated, unlike McCain, and he has surrounded himself with strategists who are also quite intelligent — especially with regards to foreign policy and economics. He is a man who’s used to sitting down with opposing sides and working things out — mediation, not confrontation. I can’t see Mr. McCain doing this with his explosive personality. He’s too spoiled & used to getting things his way. It’s been like that since he was a young and pampered son of an Admiral.
October 28, 2008 at 10:53 am
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
Do you think the Seattle news could have spared a few more spaces or another line to give a simple reason, i.e. lacked standing?
I just found the actual filing of the judge:
Marquis Order
The salient portion is:
3. The Court finds that there are no disputes of material fact, and the facts are set forth within the pleadings and declarations considered by this Court. The question of whether Senator Obama has, or does not have, the qualifications to serve as President of the United States is not presented in this action, because Plaintiff does not affirmatively assert that Senator Obama lacks those qualifications and offers no evidence on the subject.
k
October 28, 2008 at 11:04 am
koyaan
discomigde wrote:
Who needs a semi-automatic weapon?
So you’re saying the government should be allowed to limit us only to those things it thinks we need?
k
October 28, 2008 at 11:06 am
JAMES
I have never criticized Sen. Obama’s education at wonderful schools, nor his oratory skills. I agree that there are needs for some control on certain types of guns, but not at the expense of the rights afforded me in our Constitution.
Regarding Gov. Palin and “God’s Plan”, you are taking that comment out of its context, much like the media does.
Do not be fooled that the strategists we see surrounding Obama are in fact the one’s whose advice he is using. Additionally, if Obama, who of course should be 15-20 pts ahead in the polls with the dollars he has spent but who cannot yet say that he has closed the deal with the electorate, actually wins the election next week, he will see that even with a Democratic Congress, everything he has promised will fall by the wayside because it cannot be paid for.
Sen. McCain has an explosive personality because that’s what the media has portrayed. Obama is a sophisticated person who sits with the opposition because that’s what the media has portrayed.
Sen. McCain- a pampered spoiled kid; yes, spolied kids stay at the Hanoi Hilton for 5 years instead of taking the early release that his father’s position would have afforded him.
I do not doubt for one minute Obama’s patriotism to our country, but I do feel he will be naive in his international handling based on his rhetoric thus far.
Let’s be realistic, he himself in 2006 said that he was not qualified to be the President; that he had just entered the national scene, and he’d basically have to start immediately running for 2008 without spending any time in his Senate slot….guess he figured that he didn’t need Senate experience on his resume.
October 28, 2008 at 11:18 am
discomidge
Being a POW doesn’t qualify anyone to be president.
Also, it was more advantageous for McCain to remain captive (yet alive) BECAUSE of his father’s position. What better “bait”? The Admiral’s son!
Finally, I am realistic. I know that an educated, balanced man will surround himself with educated, balanced people.
McCain used to be balanced in his political life. He used to take the high road, and I used to respect him. However, he has lost that respect from me — especially since he chose Palin for his running mate and Tucker Eskew (the one who slimed him in 2000) to work on his campaign.
All this stuff about Obama’s birth certificate is a load of crap, and everyone knows it. It just detracts from the real issues — the economy, the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, education, and the economy (it bore repeating).
I’m done. I have things to take care of and can’t spend any more energy on this bullshit.
Have a sincerely wonderful day.
Hope you voted! (I have!)
October 28, 2008 at 11:19 am
koyaan
JAMES wrote:
I agree that there are needs for some control on certain types of guns…
Could you expand on that just a bit?
Thanks.
k
October 28, 2008 at 11:22 am
koyaan
discomidge wrote:
However, he has lost that respect from me — especially since he chose Palin for his running mate…
I don’t think McCain chose her so much as he allowed her to be chosen for him.
k
October 28, 2008 at 2:28 pm
RogerVeritas
This dismissal wasn’t as a result of the facts of the case it was a result of precedents that that were unrelated to the focus of the case. Berg lost his first round. Not unusual. Election law suits are usually brought by the a wronged party, ie the loser.
Voters who have sued in the past had done so based upon all manner of complaints in cases unrelated to presidential in origin. They and their cases brought for frivolous reasons created a series of stepping stones which Mr Bergs complaint had to cross and discounted his “Standing”.
Decisions are often written by the opposition. Judges and clerks will use the best arguement.
This case was never argued. It was dismissed. It needed to be filed in a lower court first as most cases like it start out even thought it is a federal issue. It had to be dismissed. Now it needs to be refiled. There aren’t a lot of cases like it so there aren’t a lot of precedents to guide Judges. This Judge wasn’t qualified to adjudicate a constitutional issue.
The issues remain. The need to be addressed and verified. This case can if nothing else shine much needed light upon the candidate qualification and official state vetting process. Other than receiving a candidates application Secretary of States do no due diligence on the candidates credentials unless their opponent brings up the issue.
The most frequent disqualification for candidates is their official residence…The birth certificate thing hasn’t really ever come up.
October 28, 2008 at 3:05 pm
JAMES
Thanks Roger. I have argued your point of this highlighting the need to hold the candidate and the election officials more accountable in the vetting process, as well as the stepping stones of a case such as this.
October 30, 2008 at 1:25 pm
bud
because the pacer went down doesnt mean the file is lost for ever…..all the states that have a suite filed against obama will go on the docket after first vote for him is cast in that state….
October 30, 2008 at 3:25 pm
bud
fax to berg 18:09 (6:09pm
end 18:16 (6:16 pm
: 07 min
other fax 4:55
end 5:11
:16min
looks like Judge got two 35 page fax one rite after another judge had fax 59 min before he sent one to Berg
October 30, 2008 at 3:31 pm
bud
what ever was on pacer will still be in memory when plugged in again it will be in history or dead files
October 31, 2008 at 3:00 am
facepalm
I guess the fact that the clerk that typed the order might have been in another floor or building and faxed it.
Due to the sensitive nature of court decisions and the general insecurity of email systems, court sensitive decisions are routinely faxed prior to release.
“Hey Betty, go stand at the fax machine. I’m going to send you the final version.”
“Ok, Sue. Hold on while I walk over there. Start sending now.”
It happens a hundred times a day.
Geez you guys…
October 31, 2008 at 10:26 am
bud
Sorry your fax page just dont pass the test or your story……..courts us the am/pm time date… your send recive time dont match how can a fax be sent from judge at 18:09 yet bergs machine recives it at 9:04 pm…….and you state it was sent out and ended 18:16 3 hours for fax to go thru to berg
and if the so called sending fax at 4:55 the rest of the fax numbers would be on the bottom…. fax machines have 10/12 steps in it set up if one is missing it wont send ….. nice try
November 2, 2008 at 1:02 am
roger
November 2nd, 2008 at 3:48 am
Let’s run this again!
I have been a computer engineer for 13 years… Who purports to have the “original birth certificate” of Barack Hussein Obama II?
I still would like to see it!
The one I saw was clearly produced after 1989 with a computer. The type face and font style is not in any stretch of the imagination TYPED ON A TYPE WRITER!
Let’s see the real thing!!!
LOOK FOR YOURSELF:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html
November 7, 2008 at 9:59 am
Randy Ullestad
Once again, morality and ethics are disgarded when dealing with Barry Obama. It is very obvious that Judge Surrick lacks integrity and quite possibily reasonably good mental health. “Supplying a legal birth certificate is required to run for the office of the Presidency. It is plainly written in article 5, section 2 of the Constituion of the United States. It is the law of the land!”
Judge Surrick, I hope you’re ashamed at your lack of integrity and moral character. Please people don’t sell your soul to support a man of such duplicitous character as Barack Obama.
November 7, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Ed Darrell
Randy, here’s the full text of Article II Section 5:
Just for good measure, here is Article V – there is only one section:
Nothing about a birth certificate in either one.
Ed
November 7, 2008 at 7:01 pm
JAMES
Ed: Perhaps its time that these issues be addressed
November 7, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Pres Ilog
We must all ask President Bush to delay TRANSISTION in the WHITE HOUSE and petition the US Supreme Court to cancel or delay the induction, swearing in of Barack Obama as President until He produces his credentials of eligibility to be POTUSA according to the US CONSTITUTION. He owes that to all the people of the country and the country.
November 8, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Ed Darrell
Bush would be in a poor position to try to delay such a transition. Bush never presented a birth certificate. According to Pres Ilog, Bush is probably ineligible to serve.
Hey, PI: Will you pressure Bush to present his credentials? Maybe we can take back the past 8 years of disaster . . .
Ed
November 11, 2008 at 11:20 am
Obama Not a Legal Citizen? Obama an Illegal Alien? | Time4Revolution
[…] Further links and theories related to this story: https://james4america.wordpress.com/2008/10/25/judge-surrick-received-the-decision-he-issued/ […]
November 14, 2008 at 4:12 pm
OBAMA in 7 LAWSUITS, 13 THINGS the NEWS wont TELL YOU
[…] Lawsuit: ObamaCrimes.com We The People Foundation. Collection of updated info about the Lawsuit. Judge Surrick Received the Decision He Issued. Judge Surrick Paid Off by Obama Campaign? (vid) Opposite Berg-Obama Suit Verdict Story Vanishes. […]
November 26, 2008 at 4:04 pm
What Will The Future Bring Under Obama? « No Compromise When it Comes to Being Right!
[…] It is possible that Judge Barkley Surrick, who dismissed the case brought by Phillip Berg to verify Barack Obama’s eligibility for presidency, might have been instructed on how to rule on the case. […]
December 14, 2008 at 11:38 pm
braveman7
An American concerned with toxic feminism http://www.SacredWarrior.org
December 15, 2008 at 9:14 am
jim
That’s pretty interesting…
Thank God that we’re at least not trying to dig into McCain’s or Palin’s past. Thank God the right person won this time. Hopefully all of this will be sorted out soon enough. Go Obama!
December 15, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Ed Darrell
The Supreme Court today rejected the second case. Electors in the 50 states met to cast their ballots today.
It appears to be sorted out, now.
February 15, 2009 at 4:27 am
Antawltummitayqox
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February 15, 2011 at 1:48 pm
rassit1973
Ran across this on the web. Hope everyone likes their “Change” they got down there. I served in the USAF for almost 5 years in the late 90’s I had the forsight in 2006 to emmigrate to Canada. Best decision I ever made!
November 2, 2011 at 11:25 am
Chris Strunk
This whole process has been one big circle jerk run by Sidley Austin Law firm connected with the Commercial Club of Chicago!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/69647960/UPDATE-for-OSC-in-re-Plaintiff-s-Affidavit-in-Support-of-OSC-w-exhibits-an-MOL-in-NYS-SC-Kings-Index-6500-2011