However, despite the major progress made – I am left scratching my head and wondering:
Why do President Obama’s ‘Certification of Live Birth’ and so many of the online images of alleged certified copies of Hawaiian Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth bear Hawaii Department of Health embossed seals that are completely inconsistent with the image directly released by the department and in effect since 1988?
Obama’s seal is not uniform to the seal described in the Title 11 Administrative Rules but the one supplied to me directly by the HDOH is.
Also worth noting is that only the Director of the Department of Health may issue a certified copy of a vital record. Therefore, all seals on all certified copies since 1988 should be uniform.
There is no room for debate. Arm yourself with this info, so you can let the Obots and Obot plants know they have no leg to stand on.
full article: http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/unveiling-the-hdoh-seal/
29 comments
Comments feed for this article
December 6, 2010 at 1:37 pm
HistorianDude
LOL… Miss Tickly has just declared every on-line COLB a fake… even those having nothing to do with Obama. Not just one, not just a couple… every single one.
Even those provided by Birthers such as “Polarik.”
Might she be wrong in her assertion that “all seals on all certified copies since 1988 should be uniform?”
December 6, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Interested Bystander
HD,
What the article does is question your argument about Obama proving more than two years ago that he is eligible to be President, with the release of the COLB. It aso brings in the question of who certified that the COLB was genuine?
Not one person at DHOH has stated that the released document was obtained from DHOH. I wondfer why that is?
The seal on the released COLB is not consistant with the law, and does NOT look like the seal the HDOH sent her.
December 7, 2010 at 1:40 pm
HistorianDude
The article can “question” anything it wants. Ms. Tickly herself has in a series of foul mouthed and scatological screeds on the Butterdezillion blog questioned everything from my sexual preference to my sobriety. She is, frankly, nuts.
But back to this issue, there are two possibilities here. Either every single Hawaiian COLB that has ever been put on the internet, to include those obtained and posted by Birthers, are fake, or Miss Tickly is wrong.
Look up “Occam’s Razor.” It applies here.
December 7, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Interested Bystander
HD,
Seems to me that all she is trying to do is verify that the President was born in Hawaii.
YOU are the one who takes everyone at their word, with no verification.
For you to deem someone “nuts”, is like the pot calling the kettle black.
As far as your assertion that “every” COLB put on the internet are fake, what I will comment is this. Ms Tickly didn’t make the law in Hawaii, all she did was report it. If the HDOH isn’t following their own law, then that’s on them, not on Ms Tickly.
It is interesting to me that whoever you get your “marching orders” from can only come up with the argument you are spouting here, that all on line COLBs are “fake”, and you are NOT addressing the issue that the seal on the COLBs are not within the guidelines of the law. For you to suggest that there is more than one stamp used to certify documents from the HDOH, is simply ridiculous.
Obama’s COLB pictures from factcheck are in HIGH DEFINITION, which means that the resolution is supposed to be the best. You would think that you would be able to at least make out the “stars” that are supposed to be at 3 and 9 oclock on the seal, and it is VERY clear that there are NO stars anywhere on this stamp.
It seems to me that you are in “panic” mode, trying to deflect the issue at hand, and trying to discredit the messenger.
You can’t address the main issue, that being that the stamp on Obama’s posted COLB is NOT within the guidelines set out in the law that has been on the books since 1988.
It also means that your “he proved two years ago that he is eligible” is out the window. Now when you comment that, my response will be:
Is the stamp on the COLB posted by Obama lawful under Hawaii law? The resounding answer to that question, at least at this time, would be NO it is not within the guidelines spelled out in the law.
Now go back to your “handlers” and see how you are supposed to respond to THAT.
December 8, 2010 at 7:53 am
HistorianDude
IB
By declaring every Hawaiian COLB every issued a fake? How’s that working out?
Her inability to tell the difference between an embossed star and an embossed dot does not equal the Hawaii DoH not :following their own law.” Especially since the law actually says they can do anything the want with their seal.
As Birther theories go, this one is as false as most others and dumber than most.
That’s Miss Tickly’s argument, not mine. You are confused again.
Again… you have exactly no idea what you are talking about. Do you have any idea how many people work at the DOH? Do you have any ideas how many documents they have to certify on a daily basis?
Do you actually believe they have only one stamp?
What a dumb comment. The resolution of the pictures can’t be better than the resolution of the emboss itself.
Hey, if you want to join Miss Tickly’s insanity and insist that Hawaii has never issued a single certified document since 2001, be my guest. As in all other Birther claims you will get laughed all the way to the padded wagon.
December 8, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Interested Bystander
HD comments:
“By declaring every Hawaiian COLB every issued a fake? How’s that working out?”
No, she didn’t “declare” anything of the sort. She is declaring that the seal on the released COLB is NOT within the guidelines of the State Law.
NOW who’s making stuff up?
HD continues:
“Her inability to tell the difference between an embossed star and an embossed dot does not equal the Hawaii DoH not :following their own law.” Especially since the law actually says they can do anything the want with their seal.”
It’s not “her inability to tell the difference”, it’s the high definition pictures that tell the story. There are NO STARS at the 3 and 9 oclock positions on the stamp. All you have to do is look at the pictures.
DUH
For you to suggest that each and every office of the HDOH can “do whatever they want with their seal” simply shows your desperation. The law is very clear what every seal has to be uniform.
You are REALLY showing your desperation to suggest that each office’s seal is different.
HD next comments this:
“That’s Miss Tickly’s argument, not mine. You are confused again.”
No it’s not, you are suggesting something that she NEVER suggested. You are putting words in her mouth. She NEVER suggested that every COLB is fake, you did in your first comment. The article clearly states that Obama’s seal is different than other COLBs that were released.
Again HD shows his ignorance:
“Do you actually believe they have only one stamp?”
No idiot, but I do believe that every stamp is UNIFORM. For you to suggest that one office’s stamp is different than another office’s stamp is pure stupidity.
HD goes on:
“What a dumb comment. The resolution of the pictures can’t be better than the resolution of the emboss itself.”
Well it’s pretty clear that there are NO STARS at the 3 and 9 oclock position on the stamp. It is also clear that since this is the case, the stamp does NOT follow Hawaii law.
Unless of course you are defending the President, and then it’s just “normal”.
HD concludes:
“Hey, if you want to join Miss Tickly’s insanity and insist that Hawaii has never issued a single certified document since 2001, be my guest. As in all other Birther claims you will get laughed all the way to the padded wagon.”
You put those words in her mouth, she didn’t suggest that at all.
How you live with yourself by lying about what other people write in an article, is not too unusual for you. You seem to have the ability to twist people’s words to say whatever YOU want them to say.
Please quote from her article where she declares every released COLB since 2001 as “fakes”.
While you are at it, link to where other COLBs from Hawaii are posted on the internet. The only one I could find was Obama’s.
December 9, 2010 at 2:18 pm
HistorianDude
I know you don’t read well. But that is exactly what she has claimed. She even highlighted the claim in blue and green with underlining.
Again… the issue is not the resolution of the pictures. It is the resolution of the emboss. This is elementary stuff, IB.
The law says no such thing. Miss Tickly says that. Nobody else.
You misunderstand me. My suggestion is actually that even within the same office, they will have different seals that can all be subtly different. That’s how embossed seals work. They are not mass produced.
That’s a lie. She even acknowledges that she’s talking about the other on-line COLBs as well, not just Obama’s.
When you actually look at all those COLBs, their seals are all just like Obama’s. Miss Tickly’s is the only one that is an anomalous outlier. I already referred you to “Occam’s Razor.” Perhaps it’s time you actually went and looked.
On this one you are simply and factually wrong. The COLBs provided by Birthers prove that.
No… it not clear. I repeat… the issue is the resolution of the emboss.
Miss Tickly is insane. I’m not sure if its worse to be an insane person or to believe an insane person.
December 7, 2010 at 10:31 am
Interested Bystander
Hey All,
In another interesting development, it seems that Dr Fukino is no longer Director of Health in Hawaii:
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/org_chart/directory.html
All there is on this page is an “interim” director, all other offices are “vacant”.
Administration Directory
1250 Punchbowl St.
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
Phone (808) 586-4400
Fax (808) 586-4444
Director
Interim Director – Keith R. Ridley
Phone (808) 586-4400
Fax (808) 586-4444
Deputy Director
Deputy Director – Vacant
Phone (808) 586-4412
Health Resources Administration
Deputy Director – Vacant
Phone (808) 586-4433
Environmental Health Administration
Deputy Director – Vacant
Phone (808) 586-4424
Behavioral Health Administration
Deputy Director – Vacant
Phone (808) 586-4416
If you look near the top of the page, look under the “Newsroom” tab, and follow the “News Releases” link, there is no mention of Fukino resigning or being fired.
I’m sure this has NOTHING to do with the article about the COLB not having the correct seal on it, the pressure of the continual requests for the ORIGINAL BC, led to her departure, I’m sure of that.
But maybe, just maybe Dr Fukino is no longer Director BECAUSE she LIED about what is on Obama’s original birth certificate. We can only speculate right now, because there is no information from Hawaii about her departure when you search google.
So this isn’t news? A couple days after someone provides information that the seal on the released COLB is not within the law of Hawaii, the director and all of her staff are no longer employed by the State.
Interesting development, at least in my opinion.
Nothing to see here, move along.
December 7, 2010 at 11:22 am
JAMES
Makes you wonder!!!!!!!!!!
December 7, 2010 at 1:41 pm
HistorianDude
Of course she’s not. Director of Health is a cabinet position. You might have noticed that Hawaii just elected a new governor?
Or didn’t you?
December 7, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Interested Bystander
Yeah,
They elected the man who read a DIFFERENT letter to the hospital then the one they posted on line at the celebration of 100 years of Kapiolani Hospital.
You know the letter, the one you hold in such high regard that claims Obama was born there. The letter that the hospital took down because after looking through their records, they couldn’t find proof of, or verify to the press that the letter was accurate?
So was Fukino fired? Did she resign? Was she asked to leave?
Seems to me that the history of Hawaii is that the heads of agencies get to stay, even if the party in power changes. Lingle only replaced TWO department heads when she was elected, and one of those was because the department head resigned, not because Lingle asked them to leave.
So Abercrombie is replacing every department head with “interim” people, and allowing all of these deputy positions to remain vacant? The Government in Hawaii must be in turmoil with all of those vacancies.
December 8, 2010 at 7:57 am
HistorianDude
Of course. Just as happens every time a new Governor is elected.
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.
December 8, 2010 at 9:38 am
HistorianDude
By the way… can’t let this lie go by:
usually your lies are less obvious than that one. You are slipping.
Now you’re making them up out of completely whole cloth.
Even the right-wing-nut-job “press” calls BS on you.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=104146
December 7, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Interested Bystander
Hey All,
Obama could stop all of this by releasing the documents, which would answer all of the questions.
Until he does, HistorianDude will have to continue to use excuse after excuse as to why this or that is “true”.
Just release the documents Mr President, YOU are the one who claimed your Administration would be “transparent”, but you continue to employ many private and Government lawyers to keep your records sealed.
And HD calls Ms Tickly “nuts”.
December 8, 2010 at 7:59 am
HistorianDude
Once again, IB would rather deliberately lie than face up to the simple truth.
Not a single Birther case would have ever ended if Obama released any documents.
This was proven more than 2 years ago when he released his birth certificate.
December 9, 2010 at 5:27 am
Interested Bystander
HD comments this:
“Once again, IB would rather deliberately lie than face up to the simple truth.”
Again you fail to point out ONE lie I have “deliberately” commented.
NOT ONE
HD goes on:
“Not a single Birther case would have ever ended if Obama released any documents.”
You can speculate all you want. The proof would be in the pudding. Talk to Axelrod, and get him to get Obama to release the documents, and let’s actually see how many cases would be withdrawn.
You don’t have any idea how many people would drop their cases. Besides, the cases wouldn’t even have to go any further, because the documents would prove Obama’s eligiblity one way or the other.
But yet he STILL won’t release the documents.
Ya think maybe he’s hiding something?
HD concludes:
“This was proven more than 2 years ago when he released his birth certificate.”
Get over that document.
First, as you know, and I have PROVEN to you (might want to take those blinders off), the long form birth ceritificate would show one of two things.
1. Obama was born in a hospital, as he claims in that letter that Kapiolani couldn’t verifiy.
or
2. Obama was born someplace other than a hospital (which doesn’t really matter to you, since you don’t really care, as long as it says he was born in Hawaii). IF this was the case, then more questions surface, and would DESERVE answers.
Obama’s birth could have happened anywhere, and as long as there was someone willing to sign as a witness stating that he was born in Hawaii, then the State would generate the COLB taht was released.
The long form BC would answer the question of where he was born, and who witnessed the birth.
You are commenting on the birth certificate with the seal that doesn’t reflect what the LAW of Hawaii states it should reflect aren’t you? Like stars at the 3 and 9 oclock positions of the stamp?
Your house of cards is getting a BIG crack in it.
December 9, 2010 at 2:23 pm
HistorianDude
When you said that, “Obama could stop all of this by releasing the documents.” You know this is a bald faced, complete and demonstrably false lie. We’ve covered this many times, and you persist in the lie. That makes it deliberate.
Yes i do, because I have actually read them. You are too cowardly to do so.
Since it’s the only document that matters, sorry. I cannot comply.
The short form already answers the only one of those two questions that has anything to do with eligibility.
By the way… Orly’s latest attempt to get a Quo Warranto decision in DC was denied this morning.
Sucks to be a Birther.
December 10, 2010 at 5:44 am
Interested Bystander
HD Commented:
“When you said that, “Obama could stop all of this by releasing the documents.” You know this is a bald faced, complete and demonstrably false lie. We’ve covered this many times, and you persist in the lie. That makes it deliberate.”
But you fail to point out HOW it is a “complete and demonstrably false lie”. You have yet to convince me that the cases would go forward if the documents were released.
The way I see it, the cases wouldn’t even have to go further than discovery, because the documents would prove the issue one way or the other, but yet Obama CONTINUES to employ both public AND private lawyers, at the cost of MILLIONS of dollars paid for by the taxpayers to keep the documents sealed. Unbelievable, unless he is hiding something.
HD continues:
“Yes i do, because I have actually read them. You are too cowardly to do so.”
Oh boy, HD called me a “coward”. Ok HD, you win. No coward words, I’m really scared to continue this “debate”.
I don’t think so……………………IB don’t play dat (to quote Homey the Clown from In Living Color).
I’m so impressed that you have read EVERY eligibility case pertaining to Obama. I really am. Because I don’t have a couple weeks to sit around and read EVERY eligibility case against Obama, doesn’t mean that I can’t have an OPINION, or speculate on what I BELIEVE would happen.
Of course I haven’t read the paragraph in EVERY eligibility case pertaining to Obama that states:
“Whereas if mumbo jumbo legal words the documents are released, with more mumbo jumbo legal words, and they prove Obama is eligible, followed by even more mumbo jumbo legal words this case will continue.”
Maybe you could point out where that paragraph is (just give me the page number of EVERY eligibility case pertaining to Obama)?
HD goes on:
“Since it’s the only document that matters, sorry. I cannot comply.”
Sure you can, but that would mean you’d have to get that tatooed COLB removed from your chest (it is tatooed backward so you can read it in the morror, isn’t it?).
As I have commented before, and I believe we can agree on, the COLB simply means that there is a LONG FORM birth certificate on file with the State of Hawaii that states he was born there. Nothing more.
And HD believes that this is sufficient proof that Obama was born there, I still have questions, and reasonable questions at that.
HD concludes with this:
“The short form already answers the only one of those two questions that has anything to do with eligibility.”
It is unbelievable to me that you would use the Constitution in such a disrespectful way.
There has not been ONE Supreme Court case that addressed “natural born citizenship”.
You can cite Ark all you want. The case was a 14th Amendment case, and had NOTHING to do with being a “natural born citizen”. As a matter of FACT the words “natural born citizen” aren’t even in that Amendment.
For you to suggest that ANY illegal child born in the United States, is eligible to run for and be elected President, shows your hatred of the United States.
There is no way in hell that the Founders would have agreed to that.
You should be ashamed.
December 9, 2010 at 5:11 am
Interested Bystander
HD comments this:
“Of course. Just as happens every time a new Governor is elected.
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.”
Well let’s just see about that.
Hawaii has had 7 Governors in it’s Statehood years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Hawaii
The first one was a Republican, who was beaten by a Democrat in 1962 and a Republican didn’t again become Governor again until 2002.
What your comment suggests is that every single Governor from the State of Hawaii, replaced EVERY cabinet member after he/she took office.
Just by pointing out (which I did in a previous comment) that Lingle (who took over from a Democrat) only replaced TWO cabinet members, and one of those was because the person quit, blows your comment “out of the water”.
The suggestion that EVERY Governor replaces EVERY cabinet member after they take office, is ridiculous.
Now who doesn’t know what they are “talking” about? (One of these days you will understand that we are NOT “talking”, but commenting back and forth. If you think I sit here and talk to you while I am writting my comments, then I see a couch in your future. A very comfortable couch in which you get asked questions like “How did that make you FEEL?” Grow up and realize that we are NOT talking. We are communicating, having a conversation, commenting to each other and so on. One thing we are NOT doing, is talking to each other. Talking means speaking, learn to know the difference)
December 9, 2010 at 2:28 pm
HistorianDude
Read the WND article I linked to. It tells you exactly why it was taken down.
“The inquiries about it became a distraction in running our hospital,” she said.
December 10, 2010 at 5:08 am
Interested Bystander
HD commented:
“The inquiries about it became a distraction in running our hospital,” she said.”
Isn’t it funny how simply asking a question would be a “distraction in running our hospital.”?
For one thing, I’m sure whoever called to ask the question was transfered to some department that had NOTHING to do with “running our hospital.”
For another thing, with Obama giving them permission to give information on the place of his birth, by stating he was born there, it would have been very easy for the person to simply answer “yes I can verify that Obama was born here, but I can not comment further than that”. Seems like a 10 second answer, and that would be that.
Oh but wait, they DIDN’T do that. They COULDN’T verify that Obama was born there, and took the letter down.
December 9, 2010 at 2:34 pm
HistorianDude
Oooooh. Sucks to be you. You got that completely wrong.
Lingle only replaced two cabinet members between her first and second terms.
But when she first was elected she replaced 100% of the previous Governor’s directors. That was in 2002. Go check for yourself.
Everytime you put fingers to keyboard, new lies pop out.
December 9, 2010 at 2:46 pm
HistorianDude
Go here and get a clue on how many members of Governor Abercrombie’s cabinet are brand new appointees:
http://hawaii.gov/gov/team/cabinet
I count… all of them.
December 10, 2010 at 5:00 am
Interested Bystander
HD comments:
“But when she first was elected she replaced 100% of the previous Governor’s directors. That was in 2002. Go check for yourself.”
Nope, you make the claim, YOU need to prove it. Isn’t that how it works? Isn’t that your argument on the COLB?
For you to claim that EVERY Governor EVER elected replaces the WHOLE Cabinet, is simply ridiculous, and hasn’t happened.
You seem to be following a pattern of making claims which are OBVIOUSLY false.
December 9, 2010 at 6:02 am
Interested Bystander
HD comments this:
“By the way… can’t let this lie go by:
The letter that the hospital took down because after looking through their records, they couldn’t find proof of, or verify to the press that the letter was accurate?
usually your lies are less obvious than that one. You are slipping.”
PROVE to me that this comment is a lie. Show me that the letter wasn’t taken down BECAUSE the hospital couldn’t verify what was in the letter.
Oh wait, you can’t, because if they could, they WOULD have. Obama gave them permission to when he stated in the letter that he was born there. It only goes that IF they could verify that statement, they would have answered EVERY reporter’s question as to whether Obama was born there.
They couldn’t, so they took the letter down.
Now PROVE me wrong.
HD goes on:
“Now you’re making them up out of completely whole cloth.”
Nope any REASONABLE (that would exclude you) would conclude that since Obama wrote that letter admitting he was born there, when asked if they could verify that statement, they would either say “yes”, or they would have “no comment”, and take the letter down to stop the inquiries.
There really are no other reasonable explainations.
HD concludes with this:
“Even the right-wing-nut-job “press” calls BS on you.”
You must have copied the wrong link, because the article you linked too, backs ME up and not you.
One thing that gets me about this article is where the lady is quoted as saying that they couldn’t give information about Obama’s birth unless he gave them permission.
Well the letter says he was born there, why isn’t that PERMISSION to give out information about his birth?
You may want to read the article again.
December 9, 2010 at 2:36 pm
HistorianDude
Posted this to the wrong comment:
Read the WND article I linked to. It tells you exactly why it was taken down.
“The inquiries about it became a distraction in running our hospital,” she said.
December 10, 2010 at 5:49 am
Interested Bystander
HD,
Of course it was a distraction to the hospital, BECAUSE they couldn’t verify what was in the letter.
HELLO
December 22, 2010 at 1:45 pm
bob strauss
Bill Cutting says:
December 21, 2010 at 8:56 pm
[When ordering, be aware that shortened (abstract) versions of birth certificates offered by some states may not be acceptable for US passport purposes. Be sure to order only the full, certified copy of the original birth certificate bearing the registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office.]
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/birthcert.htm
*Unless your name is Obama. Then your shortened (abstract ) jpeg will suffice.
December 22, 2010 at 3:40 pm
bob strauss
I just compared misstickly’s HDOH seal, with the seal on Mickey Booth’s, relatives’ certificates. I zoomed in on a black copy of her certificates, found at World Net Daily, and after zooming in you can make out the seal well enough see it matches the seal provided by HDOH. Raised with proper spelling and use of capital letters, and spacing of text.
Finding a legitimate seal on the internet is tough work. The criminals have been busy.